Winter Hiking & Snowshoe Advice

Hello, I am brand new to this site and this is my first post so before I get to my question, let me introduce myself.

My name is Mike, I just turned 40 and I started hiking in April 2012 with my last hike of the season on Dec 15 2012. I wish I had started hiking in my younger years as I'm loving it!! I have been missing out on some great times on trail. In my first 9 months I have been on 14 hikes bagging 21 peaks, with 11 of them over 4000'.

Since I started hiking I had been telling myself "no winter hiking", it just didn't appeal to me. As the Fall season set in and we started getting colder days and the mountains started to get icy with a little snow I kept going, I find that I really enjoy hiking in 30 degree weather a lot more than 85 and humid, am I crazy? I purchased a pair of micro-spikes and these things are great for extending your season. Then, a couple of weeks ago, it happened. Mother nature dumped 2' of snow on the Whites. So this leads into my question for the VFTT community.

I am not ready to make the purchase of snowshoes, I don't even want to buy winter boots, at least not yet. I'm planning on buying these pieces of gear for /next/ winter. What I wanted to know and I think I already answered this by reading a lot of the trail reports here, can I wait a few weeks after it snows for the rest of the hiking community to pack down the snow, and then I can get out there in just boots/spikes or boots/crampons and hike? or do I really need to use snowshoes? It's been a month since I have hiked and I'm having withdrawals, I need to get out there!

If you go out in snowy/icy conditions (which can start in October), you NEED winter boots. Not necessarily double-plastics, which I don't even own, but insulated boots. You also need traction (at least 2 of microspikes, trail crampons, etc. Why 2? Varying conditions, and breakage).

If there is any appreciable (6+"?) snow present, predicted, or even reasonable, you NEED snowshoes. You cannot count on a trail being broken out. And even if it was broken yesterday, it might have 4 inches of fresh on it today. And it can be broken at the trailhead and suddenly be 2 feet deep at 3000 ft. Remember that most 4000-footers take 6+ hours round-trip. Weather-wise, that is a wicked long time. It is entirely possible to hike up a broken trail, and come down in a raging snowstorm. Or have it warm up at 1PM, and then drop again so that clear trail becomes a smooth ice flow before you descend, (and not all "descents" are down all the way -- lots of trails require some amount of "up" to get out even if they average down).

mhobbs said:

Hello, I am brand new to this site and this is my first post so before I get to my question, let me introduce myself.

My name is Mike, I just turned 40 and I started hiking in April 2012 with my last hike of the season on Dec 15 2012. I wish I had started hiking in my younger years as I'm loving it!! I have been missing out on some great times on trail. In my first 9 months I have been on 14 hikes bagging 21 peaks, with 11 of them over 4000'.

Since I started hiking I had been telling myself "no winter hiking", it just didn't appeal to me. As the Fall season set in and we started getting colder days and the mountains started to get icy with a little snow I kept going, I find that I really enjoy hiking in 30 degree weather a lot more than 85 and humid, am I crazy? I purchased a pair of micro-spikes and these things are great for extending your season. Then, a couple of weeks ago, it happened. Mother nature dumped 2' of snow on the Whites. So this leads into my question for the VFTT community.

I am not ready to make the purchase of snowshoes, I don't even want to buy winter boots, at least not yet. I'm planning on buying these pieces of gear for /next/ winter. What I wanted to know and I think I already answered this by reading a lot of the trail reports here, can I wait a few weeks after it snows for the rest of the hiking community to pack down the snow, and then I can get out there in just boots/spikes or boots/crampons and hike? or do I really need to use snowshoes? It's been a month since I have hiked and I'm having withdrawals, I need to get out there!

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If your going to winter hike you need both winter boots and snowshoes yes. Postholeing will cause you to suffer both mentally and physically, not to mention the winter purist will want to hang you from a spruce tree for screwing up the trails.

Hey mhobbs, check out the following link:

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthre...ee-XC-Ski-and-Snowshoe-demos-Saturday-1-12-13

Not sure if they are convenient for your location but it sounds like it would be a great place to try on snowshoes for free...

Jay

In the Adirondacks the rangers will kick you off the trail if you don't have snowshoes.

Gremlin said:

In the Adirondacks the rangers will kick you off the trail if you don't have snowshoes.

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Or even ticket you!

Whites, Dacks, Greens, or anywhere else, it really is a safety issue for the wearer, and the rest of the people who use the trail.

Mhobbs, there may be days when you can get away without them, but you won't know that day until you return to the trailhead.

Read this thread for other gear suggestions.

Asking the dreaded "do i need snowshoes question" is always good for a lot of debate. The Adirondack folks are "death" on postholers and actually its against the law to hike in the ADKs bareboot so that means snowshoes or skis. In the whites there is some tolerance for the snowshoe less barebooters but realize that barebooting on the wrong day or at the wrong time of the day can cause significant issues for others and yourself as the snow can be like a sidewalk in the AM and then soften up in the afternoon. If you are way in the backcountry this can mean a possibly bivy, as postholing in deep snow is extremely exhausting. In some cases, in a normal winter, progress might be measured in hours per mile when postholing. Even if you do make it out, the postholes will freeze up at night and cause skiers all sorts of problems. If you want to make enemies, postholing on trails used by skiers anywhere is the way to do it. I expect if you do one hike where you start postholing when you are few miles out from the car, any initial concern about the cost will be long gone when you recvoer after a few hours of hard core postholing. In general postholing down a trail is the equivalent of wearing a big sign around your neck saying "newbie" in big letters.

You may run into some meetup.com groups mostly beginner level who dont have snowshoes but most of the responsible groups require snowshoes if the condtions warrant. Bascially if in doubt have them in the trunk and then decide at the trailhead.

The summits tend to get overnight snow and drifting even though down below there wasnt a trace, in that case snowshoes will be the difference between summiting and turnng around as frequently the snow on top of the mountain will be unconsolidated. If you dont mind not summiting, that is your option but to most if they can see the top they want to go for it.

On a practical note, the lack of snowshoes in the wrong conditions is probably a guarantee that you will pay for your rescue from Fish and Game. Then again the current plan appears to be charge everyone but at least for now its something to consider.

The depressing part is that most of the time you will be carrying the shoes and not even using them, make sure that you set up your pack so they are easy on easy off. If you stick to the major trails and give it a day or so most trails will be broken out, but if you start poking through its time for shoes. No need for huge snowshoes, for 90% of the whites a short pair of MSR Evos or Denalis will serve you well and fit any boot. The shoes with televators are far more comfortable for steep stuff but winter hikers lived without them for years. If you look around used snowshoes are usually available. Not much can go wrong with the old Sherpa snowshoes and they are usually on Ebay for cheap. Walmart even carries some servicable snowshoes, I think they are called Yukon Charlie's, maybe not the best but servicable and if they are on your back, they dont get worn out very quickly. Realistically you can probably pay for a good used pair in what you spend during up and back on a hike or two.

I will tell you that its hard to beat a winter hike on nice day. The views are almost always better and once you get the hang of regulating your speed and body heat, it beats summer hiking as the trails are a lot less rough. You just need to pick your days as a beginner as a nasty day in the winter can really kick your butt if you dont have the skills and gear.

I would also like to leave an opinion that you don't NEED winter boots. Just because they are labeled as winter boots does not make them so.

Reverse is also true.

Just because a pair of boots is not labeled as winter boots does not mean they can't be good for winter hiking. The insulation can be inserted into a boot (i.e.socks, felt sole)

If you watch the trail reports carefully you will see reports of trails that are packed enough to bare boot. If you can get right out after the report you may well find a trail where you can get away without snowshoes. But, as has been said, you really should have snowshoes with you. You could well find yourself in a situation where they are extremely necessary.

That being said, you don't need to start with the best. You can go to Walmart and get a cheap pair of Yukon Charlie's snow shoes. They work on moderate slopes fairly well. Once you're out there you will see the Tubbs and MSRs and want them. Watch for sales in the spring. Hiking on trails and hiking the back 40 are two different things. You don't need the largest size for most trail hiking and indeed the very large snowshoes often have trouble fitting into the slot made by the MSR hikers.

As for shoes, if you have three season Goretex shoes you can get away with an investment in a good pair of heavy wool socks when winter hiking on easier below treeline trails. You can also get a relatively inexpensive winter boot from Cabela's like the Avalanche that will take care of your needs until you decide on whatever boot you want to make the big investment in. http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/sear...boots&searchTypeByFilter=AllProducts&x=6&y=11 There are many people who once having tried the Avalanche have no interest in looking for anything else.

This weekend I hiked North Kinsman up the Mt. Kinsman Trail. I had snowshoes on the entire way even though many were bare booting to Bald Peak. But after that the trail saw much less use. Even though people had previously been up the trail, there was anywhere from 2-10 inches of snow to break trail through. Up high where it was drifting, I would have hated to not have the snowshoes on. By the time I came back down the trail, many places had snow drifted back in the trail some already. So as others have said, what is good one way, can change quickly before you get back. On Kinsman Ridge Trail though, there was a man that was hiking in a pair of work boots with no snowshoes or microspikes (crampons on his pack) and he made the summit and headed to South Kinsman. He was sinking in at least an inch or two with most steps and it looked like each step his foot slide downhill some.

In my opinion, a good pair of snowshoes are worth the cost. After about 2 winter hikes on a less than good pair, I went and spent the money. The snowshoes have designs that give great traction, keep you out of the snow, and also make for less fatigue as you don't sink in and slide back as much with each step. Do a little research, save up the money, and get a pair.

The first time I hiked the Kinsmans, on the way out I encountered about 1/4 mile of snow in a shaded hollow that was still knee deep when the rest of the trails had been almost completely bare. Without snowshoes here, I post holed knee deep about every 3rd step even with trying to pick hard spots. That made for a slow, tiring, wet, and very not fun section of my hike. So I have learned the hard way that post holing a lot just plain SUCKS.

By the way, most scout leaders and mothers with kids on a budget know about the bread bag trick. Before you put on your socks slide a bread bag over your feet and then lnside heavy wool socks over the bread bag. This keeps moisture from the foot from impacting the insulating value of the sock. Most folks havent figured out that rarely does a boot get wet from the outside its normally the other way around (unless you step in a brook). Many folks have done the 4ks with sorels and they make good boots for shoveling the driveway so they are dual purpose.

When it comes to snowshoes, that old adage comes to mind: Buy nice or buy twice. My rough usage of boot add-ons is: 75% snowshoes, 20% microspikes, 5% crampons. My advice is to budget for and buy them in that order. I actually like hiking in snowshoes. I know many people do not, but I'd rather wear them than carry them.

Tim

As has been said, best to carry snowshoes with you and might I suggest some items for trail repairs if a binding breaks. Tiewraps or something so you can play McGuiver and be on your way again! I carried snowshoes on my back the whole hike Sunday and only crossed a half mile section where I was tempted to put them on. One gal ahead of us put them on just for the televators and taking the strain off her calves. Heavy cheaper priced shoes will add more weight to your feet and at the end of a long hike you may wish you bought lighter, better with more traction. Go with a reputable vendor like EMS and they will stand behind their products, usually offering to take back defective gear especially if you apply the monies toward an upgrade. Love my MSR Evo Denalis with tails you can add on for playing in powder! Tubbs were like skis on the steeps but some folks practically telemark on the snowshoes anyway!

mhobbs said:

Hello, I am brand new to this site and this is my first post so before I get to my question, let me introduce myself.

My name is Mike, I just turned 40 and I started hiking in April 2012 with my last hike of the season on Dec 15 2012. I wish I had started hiking in my younger years as I'm loving it!! I have been missing out on some great times on trail. In my first 9 months I have been on 14 hikes bagging 21 peaks, with 11 of them over 4000'. ...

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Hi Mike:

Welcome to Views from the Top. I join you in being relatively new to hiking (been at it regularly since June 2010) and new to serious winter hiking. I just bought myself a new set of winter boots, snow shoes and am looking at crampons. Have had microspikes a couple of years, but have worn them on only 7 hikes if my count is correct, three of those in the past month. (I took most of last winter off due to plantar fascitis). So I understand where you're at and what you're facing.

First, I congratulate you on what sounds like a great year of hiking. I'm jealous of your 11 4Ks - I've only done 6 so far, two of them twice, and Stratton, Monadnock and Greylock, among others. Sounds like you're enjoying it as much as I am - it's a lot of fun, no? I encourage you in the thought that, if finances permit, to go ahead and take the plunge and buy snowshoes as I just now have. I haven't broken them out of their packaging yet but intend to soon - on the next weekend that I can get up north for a nice snow hike (here in CT, the 10" snow we got 12/29 will melt before I get out on a planned CT Appalachian Trail-area hike this coming weekend). It's totally doable, winter hiking, the biggest key being to dress plenty warm - ask up about that while you're at it, there are lots of smart people here with tons of experience who can share a lot, as you're finding out.

I recommend that, after getting snowshoes, if you do, you get out on some hikes with some friendly people on these boards (or through the AMC or Meet-up groups, among other resources). I can recommend some good hiking partners if you like - just PM me. My approach will be to do some easier hikes in spikes and/or snowshoes and then build up to bigger ones. I hope to bag a few 4Ks before winter is out.

My first hike this winter in spikes, in fresh powder, was an eye-opener. The snow had so much give in it, on level trail, that my feet HURT a lot, to the level of cramping, after a mere three and a half miles! Snowshoes work a lot better, so I gather. The second effort, on a moderately-graded part of the A.T., was much better, spikes only.

I think the others are right, though. Spikes are very useful, but in the Whites and in other northern tier areas, snowshoes are pretty much a must for the reasons cited. Even on a clear day, the wind's gonna blow and the snow's gonna drift, and rare will be the day where you don't need snowshoes.

PS: As Jake suggested, you can do well at the REI Garage/Used Gear Sale and other bargain opportunities. I got a pair of these - http://www.rei.com/product/748502/merrell-phaser-peak-hiking-boots-mens - returned after maybe a couple wearings, for over 40% off, and I love them. Do I prefer light running shoes such as I wear whenever I can get away with it? Sure! But I love how snug and warm these guys are and recognize that in winter, warm, dry feet are happy feet. REI's next Used Gear Sale will be toward the end of January - it's catch-as-catch can, with some luck involved, but you can get great deals at it. At the winter sale, local REI staff tell me, they sometimes have snowshoes and other winter gear.

peakbagger said:

actually its against the law to hike in the ADKs bareboot

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It's worth noting that this only applies in the Eastern High Peaks region, not all of the ADK.

The use of snowshoes or skis is required on all trails and lands in the Eastern High Peaks and strongly encouraged on all trails and lands throughout the Adirondacks.

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Another inexpensive option is US Army surplus magnesium snowshoes. I really like mine; I prefer them to the modern plastic deck shoes.

Thank you everyone for the advice! It sounds like I should just go ahead and buy them. I received $75 worth of gift cards to EMS from my family members for Christmas and I have a $15 gear bucks card good for the month of Jan. Maybe I should just go ahead and apply these to snowshoes. I was going to buy trekking poles but I can probably just keep using my 20 year old ski poles for now.

Ed'n Lauky said:

As for shoes, if you have three season Goretex shoes you can get away with an investment in a good pair of heavy wool socks when winter hiking on easier below treeline trails.

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If you try this, make sure you fit the boots with the heavy wool socks rather than stuff extra socks in a smaller boot. Compressing your feet will cut off the circulation and increase the chance of frostbite.

Goretex has poor moisture permeability at low temps and your socks and boots are likely to get damp which will increase the risk. I'd use the vapor barrier (VB) approach suggested by peakbagger to keep them dry if I did this.

IMO, this approach is marginal. If for some reason you are immobilized, you risk frostbite. Carry down or polyester booties as a backup to protect your feet if they become seriously chilled.

FWIW, I use winter double boots that are warm enough that I can camp (which often involves standing around for up to several hours) without my feet getting chilled. Much safer than the above approach.

You are only issued one set of feet. Frostbite can result in permanent damage.

Doug

bikehikeskifish said:

When it comes to snowshoes, that old adage comes to mind: Buy nice or buy twice. My rough usage of boot add-ons is: 75% snowshoes, 20% microspikes, 5% crampons. My advice is to budget for and buy them in that order.

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The percentages depend highly on the yearly snowpack and routes that you hike. There have been years where everything was ice (I remember one hike where people wore crampons from the parking lot* to the summit and back) and other years where there was a lot of deep snow (eg 2 years ago).

* The parking lot was a frozen pond. A number of party members used crampons just to get out of the car.

I actually like hiking in snowshoes. I know many people do not, but I'd rather wear them than carry them.

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It can take as little as 2-3 inches of snow before wearing them becomes more efficient than carrying them. I'm also perfectly happy to wear them.

That said, the above is a reasonable order of purchase although it may not be best for every year. Just be ready to turn back if you do not have the appropriate gear for the conditions.

Snowshoes with aggressive built-in crampons (eg MSR Denali Evo Ascent) can sometimes be used on terrain which would otherwise require MicroSpikes or crampons.

Doug

Dana said:

Another inexpensive option is US Army surplus magnesium snowshoes. I really like mine; I prefer them to the modern plastic deck shoes.

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Metal is generally more likely than plastic to ice up or for snow to stick. You can end up with 20lb snowshoes...

Doug