Formal Hiking Clubs vs Hiking Boards

[marty]

Great thread!

I have never been part of a hiker club, nor have I taken a cruise or belonged to a gym. Maybe I like to set my own pace, maybe I don't like to be led, or maybe I have an irrational fear of organized activities. I honestly don't know the answer to that

Hiking with VFTTers is a whole different ballgame, however! It is great to meet people who share my passion for hiking. I have hiked or partied with several VFTT members and hope that this will continue. Some of the people on this site are truly amazing individuals. I have not felt any need to belong to another site other than this one

Marty

 

[David Metsky]

I've hiked for years with my friends, hiked and lead trips with the DOC and AMC, and have met and hiked with lots of folks from this and other Internet message boards. All have their place.

Lots of people who don't have much experience hiking like to go with a group. The formal nature of groups like the AMC are reassuring, allow for networking and socializing, and allow folks to pick their challenge. Since leaders often know nothing about the participants it's necessary to phone screen them. More experienced hikers sometimes find this awkward and off-putting, and I understand that. I've always tried to make it as inclusive as possible, but I regularly reject people from trips (mainly backcountry ski trips where skill, experience, and gear are more important).

Sometimes you get people who are not capable of the hike and you need to make changes on the fly. But the screening process, if done well, can eliminate most of that. For all trips I've led or co-led we limit group size to 10 people. Any more than that is unwieldy and not allowed under our guide permits in the WMNF anyways. I enjoy introducing people to something I enjoy, and it is a great way to expand my group of hiking/skiing buddies. I do feel like I'm giving back to the community by introducing new people to the woods.

But organizing these trips is a lot of work and I often just call hiking/skiing buddies up on Thursday and agree to meet on Sat morning for a trip. Those are more free form and often produce some of the greatest adventures. Especially with my oddball ski friends.

The VftT trips are often bigger than any trip I've done with the AMC or DOC, there are a lot of us on this site. I love the energy and independence of this group; it's our greatest asset. At times, it's like herding cats, but in the end it always works out great. Well, mostly. I remember the first time I met VftT'ers, back in 1997 (?) and it was pretty nervewracking, not knowing anything about these folks who I'd only met via text. So far, it's been a pretty good thing.

I love them all, and plan on continuing them all. I get back a lot from all three types of trips, often different things.

Viva la difference!

-dave-

 

[Puma concolor]

98-percent of the hiking I've done over the last 13 years (can't believe it's been that long) has been solo. However, in the last couple of years, I've hooked up with folks on the internet for a Presi Traverse last year and a Great Range Traverse this year. No leaders and both were great hikes. It's pretty easy to judge whether a person's ability is similar to yours just by paying attention to their posts.

I've never had any interest in formal group hikes in the Northeast either as a leader or follower. Just my thing. Cheers.

 

[Gris]

Hiking boards are waaaay better. Where else can you find a "Hal-like" hikin computer called Doug-Paul 2000. And no rules/worries 'cept fo the chicken head po-leece & even they aren't too bad.

 

[Jazzbo]

A place to crash might be nice

People like myself who live in the Boston area and love going up to the Whites have to struggle with driving distance. It would be nice to have better variety of bunkhouse opportunities to choose from. I used to work with fellow named Mike who is rock and ice climber and triathlete. He lives in Boston and is a member of somewhat loosely organized club called Team Mercury mostly centered around Boston metro area. One benefit of membership in Team Mercury besides having circle of friends with similar interests is the fact they rent big house every winter in Conway or Bartlett NH. Mike being carefree bachler goes up to the house at least 2-3 weekends each month to ice climb or bag Washington. This venue sure works for him. I'm a member of an outing club called Sub-sig who maintain cabins in Harts Location and Montpelier VT. I'd do more with Sub-Sig but club culture isn't geared to quite level of winter or summer trips I'd like to do.

 

[runnynose]

interesting question

hmmm interesting topic.
i am an AMC member and have participated in a couple of AMC hikes a year for the past three years. group amc hikes can be frustratingly slow if you choose to hike garfield with a group on a sunny august day. the benefit of that experience is strictly the social interaction. but for me the amc hikes are helpful from a learning or safety standpoint. OH in feb to learn the 'avoid the slide in winter' bushwhack was my most recent amc hike. bushwhack hikes, an ice ax class, recent amc group events i have found helpful. and it has been on the amc trips i have met folks that i hike with regularly since, people i feel comfortable with on 'epic' winter hikes from a safety/compatibility/reliabiltiy standpoint.

having a designated leader when all group members are experienced hikers (definately the case with every amc winter hike i have participated in) does not mean that the group needs to be led --- to me it means identifying one person who will make difficult decisions if the need arises and the agreement that the group will adher to that decision for the welfare of the group.

i have actively posted winter trip reports on vftt for quite sometime but have never gone on a vftt hike. the primary reason is i generally hike with the same group. but honestly, the secondary reason is showing up to hike with strangers when no one is that designated point person sounds dicey. my concern is not with the experience level of the hikers but the unknown of how people will react in an emergency. if one member of the group has a medical problem who will support them? entering the wilderness in winter conditions with a group of unknown reliability doesnt seem smart. i am sure once you get to know people over time it is no different than hiking with friends, you get to know peoples strengths and weaknesses. i am comfortable in both the leader and participant roles but i do think that in groups larger than four there should be at least an informal leader for organizational and safety puposes. i am curious if vftt-ers have had experiences where a leader was lacking and some issue arose from this. perhaps i am being overly cautious? thoughts?

 

[cbcbd]

I like the boards. With a desk job it's much easier to keep up with. Plus, most of my hiking is solo anyway.

Where else can you find a "Hal-like" hikin computer called Doug-Paul 2000.

I bet he's a question-answering BOT

 

[JeffAndrews]

When I lived in NYC I was a member of AMC for a long time and every time I would get one of their booklets in the mail I would scour it for potential hiking opportunities. And the ones I was interested in would inevitably be "Hiking Boots Required". And since I don't hike in boots, I never ended up being able to go.

I tried the activities board on craigslist, and got a lot of responses. Unfortunately, most of them were looking for more than a hiking buddy. One woman sent a headshot photo with her reply. If I were single I'd probably spend a lot of time on that board, but since I'm not I'll stick with actual hiking boards like VFTT.

 

[Tom Rankin]

And the ones I was interested in would inevitably be "Hiking Boots Required". And since I don't hike in boots, I never ended up being able to go.

I can't quite tell what you are wearing in your avatar, but if you are wearing trail runners, and you tell the leader you've hiked extensively in them, than I wouldn't see a problem.

 

[JeffAndrews]

I actually just wear regular running shoes, which have always worked for me on hikes.

But my fear with an organized hike was that if I did convince the leader to let me go bootless, and then I ended up twisting an ankle I would ruin the hike for all the other hikers who were following the rules.

 

[mtnpa]

Hiking forums are a good example of how the internet brings the world closer together. I'm a self-taught hiker with basic "Boy Scout" skills. Hiking with friends was never really an option. Most would rather take a root canal for me than walk up a mountain. I crossed paths with some VFTTers on a winter hike with a friend of my wife. This led to lurking and eventually signing on. Now I can find people to hike with almost anytime.
It is assumed that everyone is self sufficient and "on their own" on these hikes. However, I've been very impressed by the concern folks show for fellow hikers, especially beginners. I'm guessing that most folks I've hiked with would make responsible decisions and be more than willing to offer help in a bad situation.

 

[RoySwkr]

Like I said to Doug, they can not bar you from following them up the mountain. Not that I have ever seen this happen.

I've seen it a lot, particularly in winter. There used to be one guy in the AMC who didn't like to get up early so he would always catch up about the time the trail was broken almost to the summit. He actually had the nerve to register with the leader but some people would just see the trip listing and show up a couple hours late.

I have even shown up myself without registering when I found out I could go at the last minute, but risking that nobody else would be there.

I used to lead and attend organized group trips back before e-mail and voicemail, making and taking reservations was a giant pain and I'm sure it's better now. I have had great luck meeting interesting and flexible people through VFTT but still go on club hikes in the winter.

 

[sapblatt]

Far more important is getting the people back to the trailhead safely. And the antithesis of safety in numbers is that the more people, the more likely that someone will have a problem. The optimum number depends on the trip and the people--it can be just a soloist, a small group, or a large group.
Doug

This is what I go thru at home on a near weekly basis. I prefer to hike with a small group of people that I have hiked with before or met thru VTFF. I will solo from time to time - I don't prefer it, but I do enjoy it as well. My wife thinks this is risky and dangerous behaviour, especially since we have children. I counterpoint that I have been on hikes in groups that were far riskier because certain people were reckless and did not care about others skills, comfort levels, abilities, fears, etc. In that situation I find it much safer to be alone. When I solo I am even more cautious than I am normally (which is pretty cautious) - that includes a slower pace on tricky sections and carrying extra gear and food to get me thru an unexpected overnight if needed.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I've seen it a lot, particularly in winter. There used to be one guy in the AMC who didn't like to get up early so he would always catch up about the time the trail was broken almost to the summit. He actually had the nerve to register with the leader but some people would just see the trip listing and show up a couple hours late.

Lame!

Although I have of course benefitted from others breaking trail for me in the Winter, but never deliberately starting out a few hours after a known group!

And if I do catch up with a trailbreaker, I would offer to help....

 

[Paradox]

Although I belong to AMC, I don't take advantage of it to much. I very much enjoy being a member of this forum. I am a dentist and have trouble with mid range planning. Short term is easy if I am not busy I go. Long term is easy I put it on my schedule. But mid range is tough because if there is one patient on my schedule it makes it difficult for my staff to move people around. This internet group is very good for me.

 

[KayakDan]

Over the years,Mrs KD and I have done a number of organized trips,some with AMC,both hiking and kayaking. Also done a number of trips with paddling clubs,and a couple of EMS sponsored trips. Most were a lot of fun,can't say any were a disaster.
We have also done a few VFTT hikes,and met a great bunch of folks.
We don't go on organized hikes because we need assistance,but rather,we enjoy the social aspect of it.
Other times,I just like it to be the two of us,and we can change plans without worrying about others.
A couple of years ago,I was really getting into trip leading. I'm a leader for a Boston paddling club,but I have only done a couple of trips.Too busy with my own trips right now! Started the AMC tripleader process,but couldn't get anybody to set up my two co-lead trips to qualify. Maybe this year.
I like the loose setup of VFTT. Want to hike-show up ready. Looking forward to hiking season and seeing more VFTTer's on the trail.

 

[bill bowden]

Some comments for Tom et al.

While I hike a lot with my friends, I've been an active trip leader for the NH AMC for 15 years. Things have evolved both inside and outside hiking clubs over that time.
Hiking clubs were once an almost unique resource to provide a place for the hiking community to meet, exchange ideas and routes as well as to provide hiking companions. VFTT does this very well. IMO 3-season hiking particpation through the clubs is declining and 3-seasonhiking may be in decline overall.

Winter hiking is now much more common and the clubs still seem to have a very active program.

Different groups have wildly varying requirements for leaders, ranging from a desire to hike but no specific training to extensive classes and experience requirements (ad nauseam).

The speed thing and the screening thing are two sources of trouble for both leaders and hikers. Many of the clubs have doctrine for gear (enough to leave a team on the mountain overnight is typical) leading to heavier packs and slower paces. The obvious benefit is better ability to handle an emergency so there is a clear trade-off. If you participate in the club hike, you must buy into the "everything but the kitchen sink" mindset. In the past, especially in winter, this was common sense for everyone. Now I'm not so sure because the trails are far more heavily travelled.

The idea behind the screening is to place hikers with hikes they are capable of and will enjoy and can do without excessive risk. And, if you are going into a wilderness area, to keep the trip at the 10 person limit or below. Experience, gear, conditioning and personality are all factors. The leader may be a complete jerk or he may be a decent guy trying to eat supper or sit on the pot.

This message has gone on too long already but my quick summary would be the clubs are a good place to learn and become familiar with gear as well as for providing social contact and that the last topic is also wellmet by VFTT and other bulletin boards

 

[dms]

Freeloaders

Lame!

One winter a few years ago, myself, Doug and Jeff Romano were preparing to wack up to Scar Ridge from the campground entrance. Another car arrived and two guys asked us where we were headed. We said they could join us, but they declined. All morning we felt as though someone was behind us, finally we stopped in a patch of spruce and waited, after about 5 to 10 minutes, one of the guys came through the spruce and was face to face with us, in no uncertain terms we told him what we thought of him and his tactics, faced with 3 lunatics he decided it was best to descend and come back another day.

 

[dug]

I've never gone a group hike, either through boards or clubs. Not my cup-o'-tea, but that's me. I think it's the itinary thing that holds me back. Too many times than I care to mention, I have started out with one hike in mind only to change. That can happen on the ride up, on the trail, at the first peak, etc. Or, I might just feel too damn tired to summit that day so I'll turn around. That isn't always OK in a group environment.

I have hiking partners who have been on club-sponsored hikes. One has mixed reviews. She is a slow hiker and sometimes definantly knows she's holding up the group, other times she has nothing but positives. Her very good friend is an AMC-leader, so she is encouraged to go and also guides my acquaintance when the hike and group might not be best for her.

Another buddy moved to NH many years ago after being groomed in the ADK's. Not knowing the area, he joined an AMC-backpacking trip and hated it. Didn't want to camp where they wanted to camp, wanted to do a different loop, etc. Too regimented for him, and I think I'd feel the same way.

That's why I often just go with my dog. She is always willing, takes any trail, never barks back, and let's me make all the important decisions.

 

[kmac]

Hands down I think that hiking with my "views" friends has been a highlight of my hiking career. I have met the most wonderful,caring,responsible people through this forum. Friends for life : )
Before we go on our backpacking trips or dayhikes, there is always open discussion on the routes,food and the gear. Never is there a designated leader but there is without saying, a leader in our midst,and we always know who they are.
We all show respect for one another, the mountain and we share the love of hiking and the outdoors, I feel very fortunate to have discovered this forum and the friends I have met through "views"
kmac