Hiker pecking order?

[Peaks]

Unfortunately, a few thru-hikers think they are entitled. The attitude of a few ruin it for all.

Shelters are first come, first served basis. And everyone, especially thru-hikers should carry a tent or other shelter (tarp, hammock) with them. No excuse. Like wise, shelters should not be monopolized by groups. But I wouldn't consider a family a group. Thus, if the facts are as you portrayed them, I think the caretaker was wrong.

 

[Maddy]

I agree that it should be first come first serve but that being said this is my own philosophy on the matter.
I love thru-hikers. I like meeting them on the trails and chatting about their experiences. I pack giant Snicker bars for them and they have always been most grateful . I would love to share a shelter with a thru-hiker but I would voluntarily and happily relinquish my spot if it made their life a little bit easier. Two years ago I offered to pay for an overnight stay at Mizpah for a thru-hiker who helped us out of a bad situation on Webster-Cliff as the sun was setting. He carried my pack and stayed right with us until we made it to the hut.We were hiking at a "turtle" pace because I was injured. He would not accept my offer and I am not certain where he slept that night. I am relatively certain that meeting the two of us at the end of a long day was not what he had bargained for but he was very gracious, encouraging and kind. I can honestly say that over many years of hiking I have never met an obnoxious or rude thru-hiker but there probably are one or two out there.

 

[rhihn]

The Applachian Trail Conservancy indicates that the shelters are open to all, up to the capacity of the lean-to.

However, some thruhiking basics.

Some interesting regs apply to thruhiking in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

The compendium states in part:

"Reservations are required because of the high demand for the limited space available."

"The use of tents at shelters is prohibited except by persons qualifying as thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail (by definition an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the Park and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles outside the Park). Thru-hikers may pitch tents outside shelters only when all bunks are otherwise occupied."

"It is unrealistic to expect thru-hikers to obtain advance reservations when they do not know when they will be entering the Park."

"Note: A Compendium of Orders for the Appalachian National Scenic Trail sets forth additional restrictions which apply to specific sections of the A.T. outside Great Smoky Mountains National Park. For information, contact the Appalachian National Scenic Trail office in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia."

See discussion of AT shelters here.

A helpful but quite controversial site is Trailplace

 

[Iceman]

I've been backpacking the AT solo, one state at a time so I don't really fit in the section hiker or thru hiker catagory. I enjoy staying at the shelters for the company. I start hiking at the crack of dawn so I arrive at the shelter very early (3 PM). If there are people already there, I will ask if there is room for one more. The thru hikers treat me like one of their own and will always make room for me. Likewise, I will do the same for them. The people that give me a problem are the weekend campers. Since I stop so early, I have plenty of time to hike to the next shelter. If I encounter the same problem there then I just set up my tent.

I have never had a bad experience with any thru hiker that I have met. I have a lot of respect for them and they can sense that when they talk to me. Not one thru hiker has ever asked me to leave a shelter. If a thru hiker did ask me to leave, I probably would only because I would not want to associate with a person like that.

So far the thru hikers have made my experience on the trail a very positive one and I can't wait to retire so that I can have time to complete my own thru hike.

 

[AntlerPeak]

First come first served appears to be the rule according to the info posted by Dick. Of course that is the generally accepted norm by hikers. I have hiked the entire AT in New England piece meal over a series of two week trips in consecutive years. During that stretch I encountered many through hikers and found none of them to be anything other than pleasant individuals. I shared many a lean-to over this journey with said thru-hikers. The only obnoxious individual I encountered was a caretaker at Spec Pond. But that is another long story for a future thread ( perhaps ). As far as giving up shelter space for an "entitled" thru hiker well lets just say when I finished laughing he may get a few expletives, but nothing more.

 

[xjbone]

The only incidents I've had (or have heard of from friends) involve people (non thru hikers, definite weekend warrior types) hogging the shelters by pitching their tents IN the leantos and spreading their stuff everywhere (once this involved a HUGE stereo, some hand held video games, several large lanterns, a cooler, etc).

Once my friend reached a leanto at night and a guy said to him "I don't know where you think you are sleeping tonight, but it's not here". I think there were two guys in the shelter with the same set up (tent pitched IN the leanto, etc). My friend decided just to keep on moving. The guy had an attitude and it wasn't worth an encounter.

I don't get it?!? I've definately seen that on more than one occasion! It seems these are always the same slackers who usually bring everything under the sun (radios, coolers, dishes, pots, pans, etc.) and leave the site a complete mess when they leave.

 

[forestgnome]

One AT hiker gets in and says he has 4 more buddies coming over the next hour. During this time more non-AT hikers start to claim spots, several parties of 2, many more singles.
Eventually it is getting filled.
Then the CARETAKER comes in, hears about the 4 more expected AT hikers and starts to take "inventory" of everyone there.
You won't beleive the result!
He forces the family of 3 out of the shelter...thats right....the "first comers" get ejected to the overflow camping area, which is way overflowed now!

The kids were bummed out big time and crying![/I]

The caretaker is ignorant and the thru-hikers are all very weak people.

This reminds me of why I hike alone and camp far from huts and shelters.

Happy Trails!

 

[Ridgewalker]

I have not had to give up space at a shelter before. During my travels to the huts thru-hikers are wonderful people and open to sharing their experience. Should I be faced to give up my place in a shelter it would be done in reasoning of the rules, first come first served.

 

[Periwinkle]

I've read about incidents between thru-hikers and so-called weekend warriors.....Have you or someone you know ever been on the receiving end, or giving end , of this kind of thing?

Living and hiking in the WMNF, I try not to use shelters on the AT during peak thru-hike times to give priority to thru-hikers.

In general, the worst shelter hogging (tent in shelter kind of thing) I've seen has been on "tourist" trails.

Because I hike with dogs, no matter where or when alternative plans are always in play -- tent or hike out. Which reminds be of a good thru-hiker/weekend warrior moment. On my 24th out of 48 of the WM 4's, my hubby and I met an obvious thru-hiker on Garfield. When she asked if we were staying at the Garfield shetler, I assumed it was because she was concerned about my dogs. When I said we were planning on it, she said "Good, I like company".

We had a great time at the shelter talking to LittleTree. I appreciated her openmindness so much I offered up my pack contents, making gifts of a little chocolate, some toilet paper, and $10 for lunch money on the summit of Washington.

 

[Michelle]

Shelters........first come, first serve, that's the way it goes, but the general rule of thumb is ....there is always room for one more....so push over!!

I remember sliding my prolite over mulitple times to squeeze one more in the 6 person shelter. When it's raining out, no one wants to carry the wet tent/tarp for days afterwards, all heavy and getting moldy.

One shelter in Tenn. the weather was awful, everyone stopped early because there was shelter from the storm, I forget how many people were squeezed in, but we easily doubled the capacity, then pulled the picnic table close and someone slept on that too! People were even willing to sleep in the outhouse for cover! Desperate times call for desperate measures! Once we even woke up in a shelter to find someone had come in late and set up a hammock over sleeping people!!

We got to one shelter in VA, (raining of course.....otherwise, we would have tented) Asked if there was room and were told, "no". It's like....hmmm, wait a min, the book says this shelter fits 8 and there is only 5 of you.........so I guess there is room! I think the best thing is..........don't ask if there is room, just move on in...with a smile of course!

The shelters in the Smokies only "reserve" 2 or 3 spots for thru-hikers and if other hikers show up to a full shelter with a permit..........thru-hikers, out you go.

As for the "pecking order"....there are a number of rude people everywhere, even on the AT. Just cause someone is out hiking........their personality doesn't change. It's sad that some hikers think they are better than others because of the miles they have walked, but maybe they thought they were better than others before they even started the walk.

 

[KMartman]

The only incidents I've had (or have heard of from friends) involve people (non thru hikers, definite weekend warrior types) hogging the shelters by pitching their tents IN the leantos and spreading their stuff everywhere (once this involved a HUGE stereo, some hand held video games, several large lanterns, a cooler, etc).

Once my friend reached a leanto at night and a guy said to him "I don't know where you think you are sleeping tonight, but it's not here". I think there were two guys in the shelter with the same set up (tent pitched IN the leanto, etc). My friend decided just to keep on moving. The guy had an attitude and it wasn't worth an encounter.

Setting up your tent INSIDE the shelter is just plain stupid...HA....too funny...with my personality I likely wouuldve had a slight altercation with the above reference guy making comments about where im sleeping...

M

 

[dr_wu002]

We got to one shelter in VA, (raining of course.....otherwise, we would have tented) Asked if there was room and were told, "no". It's like....hmmm, wait a min, the book says this shelter fits 8 and there is only 5 of you.........so I guess there is room! I think the best thing is..........don't ask if there is room, just move on in...with a smile of course!

I imagine that some people just aren't familiar with the rules or what it's like -- a group will get to the shelter and think "all right! we got here first" and not realize that if they haven't filled it up and other people show up they have every right to stay there as well until I guess the shelter reaches capacity (or breaking point in some cases!)

-Dr. Wu

 

[Dugan]

Setting up your tent INSIDE the shelter is just plain stupid...

M

I've done just that for extra shelter around my tent. I was snowed in during a two-day blizzard. I can't remember how much snow there was, but I remember chest high drifts.

 

[giggy]

Setting up your tent INSIDE the shelter is just plain stupid...HA....too funny...with my personality I likely wouuldve had a slight altercation with the above reference guy making comments about where im sleeping...

M

if your not taking a space away from someone and its a situation like dugan mentions or heavy rain - why not?? I have done it.

 

[Jeff-B]

In the case story I mentioned at Guyot Shelter, the AT hikers were quite surprised by the Caretakers decision to ban the family of 3 to make room for them.
The AT hikers, (few anyway) offered to leave so the family could stay, but the Caretaker was insistent.....

I enjoyed all the stories the AT hikers had to share and I always have had respectfull encounters.

This past weekend I hiked for about a mile with an AT'r named "Tenspeed" who is heading to Maine.
When he gets there, he picks up his bike, then rides home....to Seattle!

My "worst" shelter experience came at the Perch on the NW side of Mt Adams.
But I have stayed there so many great times before, it was only a matter of time before this situation happened.
I got there 5ish, got a spot with 5-6 others.
It began to rain, then more hikers turned up and filled to capacity with about 10+ (wedged)
Then came 2 more with 2 wet DOGS and they said jokingly, "If it rains it sleeps 16 right?"
My gear was a total mess with muddy doggie tracks all over everything.

Next day I hiked to Madison Hut, forked over the $70 for a cancellation spot, and that was the first time I had ever stayed in one!
I hike at least one AMC Hut each year now...

 

[KMartman]

I've done just that for extra shelter around my tent. I was snowed in during a two-day blizzard. I can't remember how much snow there was, but I remember chest high drifts.

I guess if noone else is around and there are circumstances like you describe...but in mid summer?? Seems silly to me..

M

 

[Iceman]

I have used a bivy sack in a shelter for extra warmth but never a tent. Many people hang their tarp as a wind break in the shelter. Why take up all that space with a tent. Even if no one else is around, it takes a lot longer to set up and break down a tent than a bivy sack.

 

[DougPaul]

I guess if noone else is around and there are circumstances like you describe...but in mid summer?? Seems silly to me..

Haven't done it myself, but one might set up a tent body for the mosquito netting. Think of the shelter as a big tent fly...

Doug

 

[giggy]

Haven't done it myself, but one might set up a tent body for the mosquito netting. Think of the shelter as a big
tent fly...

Doug

great point doug - also depending on the temps, - it can get chilly at night even in the summer in some spots anyone who has slept at hermit lake can attest to this.

- tents are warmer than shelters. you toss some rain in the picture and it can get chilly quick.

like i said - if the space is there and your not putting someone out - its not silly or stupid - its comfort! its a common sense situation.

 

[lumberzac]

Setting up your tent INSIDE the shelter is just plain stupid...HA....too funny...with my personality I likely wouuldve had a slight altercation with the above reference guy making comments about where im sleeping...

M

You can actually get fined by a ranger for setting a tent up inside a lean-to in New York. Hanging a bug net is ok though.

NEW York State DEC Regulation Part 190
Use of State Lands§190.6 Open camps
a. Open camps (lean-tos) may not be occupied by the same person or persons for more than three successive nights or for more than 10 nights in any one calendar year, provided others wish to use such camps.
b. The enclosure of the fronts of open camps is prohibited, except by tying canvas or nylon tarpaulins in place or erecting snow walls. The use of wood, nails, screws or other fasteners is prohibited.
c. The erection of tents in open camps is prohibited.

I've never had any "pecking order" experiences in the Adirondacks. Then again the only thru hike you can do there is the Northville Placid Trail which doesn't get a large number of hikers.