Leave no trace - food issues.

droping food on the trail and not picking it up by accident (or not) - LNT violation or not? curious to know the "ethics" behind this.

There is the ole - tossing an apple core isn't littering idea.

How about this one: your high on a presidential in winter with high winds, a wrapper gets blown in the wind down the gully or ravine but you probably could get it - do you go get it? its out of your way tho and its damn cold and windy.

I don't toss anything on purpose, apple core or banana peel or otherwise.
I will chase down a wrapper that is blowing away but likely not at the danger of my life.
If I accidentally drop crumbs, I don't spend a long time picking up every little piece, if the piece is substantial, I will follow the 5 second rule and eat it

sli74

a year or so back, somebody left a Hansel and Gretel trail of M&Ms on their way up (or perhaps down) the Gorge Brook Tr. on Moosiluake. I picked up every last one of them on my way down, eating many along the way. They were ugly and "lessened" my experience - as silly as that may sound...

on the other end of the spectrum, I carried a bottle of champagne up Katahdin for a good friend last year. When the cork popped, it went well out of control, despite efforts otherwise, and got lost amongst the boulders up there. We felt horrible, especially since I'm a frequent criticizer of trail litter. We searched for it and couldn't find it, but removed the rotten, horrendous cob of corn that had obviously been there for quite some time and quite a few other odds and ends.

it works both ways, but we should all do our best to avoid the latter. Will I go back to the Moosilauke headwall with a rock bar to retrieve the 2 (yup, 2 in one day) nalgenes I lost between those boulders?

Nope...

spencer

If it's by mistake and I can pick it up within reason (if I spill some rice I'm not going nuts over each grain) and safely (if it blows over the lip I'm not downclimbing to get it), then I will. Otherwise it's not worth it.
I know I'm not a litterer and care about LNT, so I don't really have to obsess whenever something like that happens.

sli74 said:

If I accidentally drop crumbs, I don't spend a long time picking up every little piece, if the piece is substantial, I will follow the 5 second rule and eat it

sli74

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GOTTA LOVE THE 5 SECOND RULE! I USE THAT ALL THE TIME .

Overall, I try not to leave anything behind and take it all out.

I was out on a search and rescue in the Adirondacks once some time back with some NYSDEC rangers - We all had the standard prepared box lunches - Sandwich, chips and an apple. I finished my apple and tossed the core about 40 feet into the blowdown and thickets up on top of Wallface. They made me go find it and then gave me a 1 minute lecture on how apple trees are not the native species to the Adirondacks. Boy did I feel like an idiot.

Ever since then, I only toss the cores if I am at an apple orchard.

giggy said:

LNT violation or not?

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It is leave NO trace, not leave LITTLE trace. It is a philosophy. Nobody can leave NO trace. We STRIVE to leave no trace. Note that the trace may have no effect.... Leaving some tea leaves amoungst rotting maple leaves, is still leaving something.

There is the ole - tossing an apple core isn't littering idea.

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Several years ago, on a multi-day backpacking trip, I had brought along an apple. I ate it, and put the core back in my pack. An hour lagter, I came upon a wild apple tree. I ate some apples that the bears didn't get. What did I do with the cores of THESE apple cores?

How about this one: ....

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You fall off a cliff, and wake up in a pool of blood in the snow. Do you mop up the blood, or just hike out. (I left the pool, as well as a trail leading out)

Like everyone else has stated it works both ways. I dont litter intentionally anyways. When I am hiking and I see litter on the trails I pick it up Sometimes I think my pack is heavier on the way out then the way in cause of the litter I have picked up.

I think what upsets me the most is when someones bear bag is robbed and they dont pick the mess up afterwords.

giggy said:

droping food on the trail and not picking it up by accident (or not) - LNT violation or not? curious to know the "ethics" behind this.

There is the ole - tossing an apple core isn't littering idea.

How about this one: your high on a presidential in winter with high winds, a wrapper gets blown in the wind down the gully or ravine but you probably could get it - do you go get it? its out of your way tho and its damn cold and windy.

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You got bigger worries than minor LNT infractions, dude.

My favorite is finding orange peels stuffed between rocks on the Franconia Ridge. If you can't see it then its not there, right.

5 Second rule? With me, it's five minutes. And if bugs are on it... protein bonus.

I say leave it all! It'll give Bird and Head some more material to make a movie out of. In the process they'll pick it up, between the two of them and one ghost.

Leave no trace?

How about covering over the unsightly yellow pee holes we leave in winter? I was welcomed by one at Time Square last week. I'm sure the ladies would appreciate our efforts. Sort of the backcountry equivalent to putting the seat up. It is a food issue; only in its final state.

I'm a firm believer in LALTAP. Leave As Little Trace As Possible.

I don't intentionally leave anything behind, but I don't agonize over food scraps either. The ravens, mice, grey jays and LBJ's all know where the hiker stops are, and make a pretty good living cleaning up the organic stuff. I don't think any type of fruit core/peel should be left behind, however.

OTOH - having said that - I don't feel compelled to carry out old tea bags, as the outer paper wrapper decomposes quickly, as will the tea leaves.

If these assumptions are incorrect, then I'm sure the Tea Bag Police will set me straight.

Kevin Rooney said:

If these assumptions are incorrect, then I'm sure the Tea Bag Police will set me straight.

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Only in the sandy soils out west.

trailbiscuit said:

I'm a firm believer in LALTAP. Leave As Little Trace As Possible.

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now that is some common sense! Its really impossible to leave no trace IMO

I like this one - LALTAP

thanks

IMO, whatever human trace, even cracker crumbs, I see on the ground while hiking brings up a disgust face and necessarily pull down my mood. For that reason, I pick up almost all of my droppings. Well, I'm not a fanatic LNT, so you can guess which one I don't pick up.

I try to be concious of what I carry but do not go overboard with the whole LNT thing. Saying any bits of human trace disgust you while standing on a trail in hypocritical to me, btw food I dont finish ie. power bars,candy, muffins into the woods it goes. Now when Im in alpine tundra whole different story nothing goes on the ground.

I think sierra has a good point about being aware of your surrounding environment.

Lowland deciduous forests (in the northeast anyway) are turning over organic matter at a pretty rapid rate. You can dig into the dirt and see that we only have a few inches of organic soil... the rest of the organic matter is stored up in all the living things!

Spruce-fir forests may have damper or more acidic soil, so decomposition will be slower.

So, while I generally try to be careful with food, especially in sensitive environments or around areas where animals get habituated to trash, occassionally I do let an apple core loose deep in the deciduous woods, without guilt.

Anyway, if you really want to make a connection between your food and the environment, eat organic and local, and start composting at home. Compared to these steps, camp food LNT looks mostly concerned with aesthetics.