AMC Executive Director pay

cooperhill said:

...I don't, however, have an issue with paying for trail work. I'm one of those people that does pay for week long trail work trips.

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On another BB there was a thread on this topic, as apparently charging participants to assist with trailwork is common. IIRC, the trailwork was organized by AHS and cost $275 (I think it was for 2 weeks). That cost covered food, tools, organizational costs, etc.

The argument for charging people is that it there are real costs in organizing and coordinating these events, beyond just the obvious costs of tools and food, and that the organizers have to support themselves and their families and cover their job-related expenses.

To me, in the case with the AMC, the issue is whether the organizational costs of trailwork should be charged directly to those performing the work, or deducted from AMC dues. Either way, there are costs, and those have to be recovered, or at least offset, from some source.

StashZdanuk said:

Golly, folks. Wasn't the originally post simply about trying to get a response from the organization? Talk about your thread. . . . . drift..

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Yes and no, I'd say. The post may have been mostly about non-response. But if there wasn't some kind of ulterior motive, then wouldn't the title also be something like "AMC Non-response to information request" or something along those lines. Seems like an axe is being ground to me.

StashZdanuk said:

Golly, folks. Wasn't the originally post simply about trying to get a response from the organization? Talk about your thread. . . . . drift..

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You're a voice lost in the storm.

It is very unprofessional not to respond. It make you feel they want to avoid the issue or you're not important enough to respond. Either way it is wrong, especially if you hold yourself as someone who cares.

BTW I'm a Boy Scout volunteer and I pay for: training, outings, trips, and even for attending and taking 36 Scouts to the 2010 Jamboree special events, $1,300. Doesn't bother me.

Don't know what the boss is paid, don't care.

SteveHiker said:

Yes and no, I'd say. The post may have been mostly about non-response. But if there wasn't some kind of ulterior motive, then wouldn't the title also be something like "AMC Non-response to information request" or something along those lines. Seems like an axe is being ground to me.

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Perhaps unintentionally. Sub-optimal thread titles and drift are a fact of life. In this case, the requested information became the thread title, and the fact that requests for it went ignored was the reason for the OP. Perhaps our own opinions of the AMC color our perception of the thread's intention.

Not that any of this is a surprise. The AMC always elicits responses both pro and con.

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

Perhaps our own opinions of the AMC color our perception of the thread's intention.

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Nah....ya think?

Just wanted to pop in here and say thanks to Dave and Kevin for their frank, yet level-headed comments.

Gillian said:

...thankfully I can choose and won't be lining the pockets of this "non-profit". There's lots of organizations out there which are better caretakers of the environment IMHO and I'll stick with them.

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http://www.nhoutdoorcouncil.org/

I'm really suprised that some people are defending the AMC charging for the cost of a trail work project. Sure there are costs, but if a multi-million dollar (non-profit) corporation can't front a few bucks for food and offer vacant rooms for lodging to people willing to donate their time, something is seriously wrong. The AMC already has many many sources of revenue - it doesn't need another one. And, BTW, maintaining the trails is something the AMC is RESPONSIBLE for. The fact that they are "stewards" of the land is one of the reasons that the USFS renewed the 30 year lease on the land for the AMC huts. So if they didn't get any volunteers, they would have to send out paid employees to do that work, or risk losing their standing as the main club that does maintenance in the Whites, thus risk losing their lease on the land in 25 years. Given all that, the least they can do is pay for lunch. (in my opinion )

chomp said:

I'm really suprised that some people are defending the AMC charging for the cost of a trail work project.

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Don't mistake my previous post as a defense of the AMC. My intent was to point out other trail organizations do it as well.

As to whether or not I agree with the AMC's policy on this - I haven't formed an opinion - don't have enough info yet.

chomp said:

I'm really suprised that some people are defending the AMC charging for the cost of a trail work project. Sure there are costs, but if a multi-million dollar (non-profit) corporation can't front a few bucks for food and offer vacant rooms for lodging to people willing to donate their time, something is seriously wrong.

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I'm pretty sure the AMC offers free lodging to volunteer maintainers (both AMC and USFS). They charge for week-long trips. I also spend money (gas, equipment) for volunteer work on my adopted trail. I don't have an issue with this - I'm not sure I'm defending but ... agree to disagree on this one.

chomp said:

I'm really suprised that some people are defending the AMC charging for the cost of a trail work project. Sure there are costs, but if a multi-million dollar (non-profit) corporation can't front a few bucks for food and offer vacant rooms for lodging to people willing to donate their time, something is seriously wrong. The AMC already has many many sources of revenue - it doesn't need another one. And, BTW, maintaining the trails is something the AMC is RESPONSIBLE for. The fact that they are "stewards" of the land is one of the reasons that the USFS renewed the 30 year lease on the land for the AMC huts. So if they didn't get any volunteers, they would have to send out paid employees to do that work, or risk losing their standing as the main club that does maintenance in the Whites, thus risk losing their lease on the land in 25 years. Given all that, the least they can do is pay for lunch. (in my opinion )

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If this is true, I agree with this comment entirely! The club I run, GayOutdoors.org, maintains the Smarts Brook Trail. To encourage people to help us out, I give free lodging at my house [I usually charge when I'm running trip for guys to stay over] and all meals are provided except for lunch on the trail. We have barely any money to do this in our bank account but we do it nonetheless. For the AMC who markets itself as a 'trail maintaining' organization, this is a real shame.

Billy said:

December 18th

Dear Mr [deleted]
Apologies for the delayed response. The woman you spoke with is [deleted], our Executive Assistant. She was still waiting on our CFO when I spoke with her on Tuesday. We had a Board meeting last week and have had several complex financing projects that had to take precedence in terms of scheduling. Rest assured, your email has not been forgotten and our CFO will be getting back to you as soon as possible.

Best,
[deleted]

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Any bets he knows some people that read this forum?

Glorified Hotel Manager

OK...I expect my post to be deleted by moderators.

BUT....IMHO it seems to me his most critical role has been as a "hotel manager".....essentially that is what the AMC runs...let's face it. "Ritz Crawford" is just an extension of the chain...just more upscale!!!!

If I had it my way the huts would be run as self service just as friendly as RMC. Open to all, and affordable to all.

And, yes, as usual, Chomp is right...the LEAST they can do is pay for lunch!!!! I'd love to see more than LEAST...how about no fees on back country sites!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are talking about a DEEP pocket club that is supposed to be maintaining trails that cost the MOST along the entire stretch of the for AT thru hikers!!!

Self Service?

Ann said:

OK...I expect my post to be deleted by moderators.

BUT....IMHO it seems to me his most critical role has been as a "hotel manager".....essentially that is what the AMC runs...let's face it. "Ritz Crawford" is just an extension of the chain...just more upscale!!!!

If I had it my way the huts would be run as self service just as friendly as RMC. Open to all, and affordable to all.

And, yes, as usual, Chomp is right...the LEAST they can do is pay for lunch!!!! I'd love to see more than LEAST...how about no fees on back country sites!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are talking about a DEEP pocket club that is supposed to be maintaining trails that cost the MOST along the entire stretch of the for AT thru hikers!!!

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Yikes, the Lakes hut sleeps 95 guests. Can you imagine what that would be like self service

Posted by Hillwalker:

Yikes, the Lakes hut sleeps 95 guests. Can you imagine what that would be like self service

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Yes, you are correct...it's a nightmare now...and should NOT be located above treeline to begin with..it violates all wilderness regs!!!! In addition Madison Hut should not be located above treeline!!!! OK...honestly...ask yourself...do you support camping above treeline? Know what...as a kid I camped on Franconia Ridge w/ my family. Do YOU think it follows the now accepted guidelines?????? What do you or others think about the rest of the hut system or camping above treeline????? I vote open it all for self service...it will be available to a larger group of people.

And, don't worry, I'm sure my posts will disappear soon...you have five dots!!!
I only have one!!! I respect your opinoin, I'm just an old timer, even have parents who were AMC'ers, my dad is in his 90's now, but honeslty, this should not be about who can afford, it should be about WMNF for eveyone and every income.

Chomp has a handle on this one...listen to him..he has the dots!!!!

Does anyone know if the salary went up a lot the last few years, kind of all a sudden or as it always been in that 300K range?

Thanks, just curious.

Answers ....

If you really want to know the details on exe pay check out this link. They are not as user friendly as they once were but you'll have to register to find out the "skinney".



http://www2.guidestar.org/


I'm SURE my days are numbered now so I hope at least a few people see this link

Ann said:

I'm SURE my days are numbered now so I hope at least a few people see this link

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First, other similar links have already been posted on this thread.

Second, the moderators here don't care what opinions you hold, only that you express them civilly.

Third, relax, no need to be so dramatic. We can all get along even if we don't all agree.

I would only care how much he makes if……

I was a member of the AMC. I have never been, nor do I plan to be a member of the AMC. I am not going to say anything negative about their philosophy, the work they perform, or the huts they maintain.

As far as the Highland Center goes:
It does create jobs for a work starved region!!!!

I think Chomp summarizes everything perfectly, as far as how I feel on the issue.

I have never been a member of the AMC and will never likely be a member of the AMC. If you do not like the fact that he makes $300K a year, then do not financially support any of their business revenue streams that pay his salary. I myself find it ridiculous to have to pay to donate time and service to them or to pay $100 to stay in a hut, so, i have never done either. The thing that irks me a little is that the salary is so high for a non profit outdoors organization. If it was for cancer research or something vitally important that was life changing, then it would be fine, but he is heading up an outdoors group. I would love to make that much money, but i don't think I would feel right morally making that much at a non profit. You have to figure that there are a lot of people that put in a lot of time at that organization that make $30,000 or less a year. I can't blame the guy for making that much, more power to him, but it seems like it may be the organization's fault for structuring their pay that way, not his.

In the overall scheme of things, JD Drew makes about $13 million a year playing left field for the Red Sox for about 100 games a year. Is he about 40 times more important than this president of the AMC? I think JD and all ball players are overpaid, so I rarely ever go to Fenway anymore. People are worth what other people pay for their services. If you don't want your pro athletes to make millions each year, don't go to the games and buy their jersies. If you don't want this guy to make $300,000 a year, than dont stay in his huts and pay to do work for him.