Leave no Trace...Really?

[Little Rickie]

While relaxing in the Highland center post hike (The place for just hanging out for a while has grown on me) I picked up a copy of AMC outdoors. A LNT leader was instructing someone in the application of LNT principles and informed him that he could not dump his dishwater out into the ground, not even if he dug a hole first. His stance was that (I believe he reffered to the water as sump) had to be drank!!!!!! not discarded. First off I'm not a proponent on LNT to be honest, but see some of the practices of LNT to be worthwhile, but this guy is plain MAD. Seriously you LNT lovers, would you go this far? even if I wanted to save the earth, that "sump" would come right back up as quick as it went down.
P.S. You may go have dinner now.

I normally think extreems well... are extreem. In this case they are leading by example. Learn something from it, do what you know is right and don't make a mess.

 

[DougPaul]

I dig and bury, that includes my T.P., it eventually go away if buried right.

It is my understanding that animals are likely to dig up TP and thus one should carry it out.

Lowest impact practices can vary according to the local environment. For instance peeing in the wet sand beside the Colorado River in Grand Canyon is preferred to peeing on dry land. The wet sand will be washed by the river (think of it as a 15000 CFS flush...) which is less damaging than the changes in the soil chemistry on dry land. Boaters are required to carry their feces out.

"How to Shit in the Woods", by Kathleen Meyer is a good ref on the topic: http://www.amazon.com/How-Shit-Wood...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1315426714&sr=8-2

Doug

 

[TCD]

I have read in many places that animals will dig up TP. It seems to be conventional wisdom. Does anyone know: Is there actual observational data supporting this? Or is the observational data just the presence of TP on the surface? This would leave open the question of whether the TP was never buried, or was buried and then brought back to the surface.

 

[griffin]

I'm not sure the critters would be interested in the TP, so much as what the TP was buried with

 

[sierra]

I normally think extreems well... are extreem. In this case they are leading by example. Learn something from it, do what you know is right and don't make a mess.

I get what your saying but I would gladly bet 10000 bucks Ive spent more time in the mountains then that dude in the AMC journal, so im not going to be following his lead, I know how I like to do things after all this time and thats how I plan to do them. As far as TP being dug up by animals, Im not sure on that one, I would tend to doubt it, but either way, Im not packing it out.

 

[Craig]

Lowest impact practices can vary according to the local environment. For instance peeing in the wet sand beside the Colorado River in Grand Canyon is preferred to peeing on dry land. The wet sand will be washed by the river (think of it as a 15000 CFS flush...) which is less damaging than the changes in the soil chemistry on dry land. Boaters are required to carry their feces out.

There are other areas and environments were it is required or preferable to pack out your feces as well as your TP. If you are out for a few days the weight of accumulated feces can become objectionable.
A couple of years ago I read a LNT article about solar drying in order to drastic reduce it's weight as feces can be as much as 75% water. Not that I'm a coprophiliac but I was intrigued with the concept. So I decided to give er a go.

I took a couple of good movements worth of excrement (not sure of the weight but that wasn't important to the experiment) and put it in two ziplock freezer bags (using the 3 pointer technique). In order to ensure it didn't explode in the afternoon sun, I poked a couple of holes in the bags. Not really interested in overseeing the process (watching poop dry is boring) I tied the double bag assembly to the roof rack of my rental SUV and went on a 3 day backpack/peakbagging foray in an undisclosed location in Colorado. I figured being on the roof of the car the bag would get maximum sunlight while limiting access to any wildlife that may want to ruin my experiment.

Returning to my car from my 3 day foray I had forgotten all about my ongoing experiment. Upon arrival I noticed a dried streak running from the roof all the way down the side door of the SUV. It was at that moment I remembered my experiment.

Lessons learned?

1. Excrement has a lot of water in it.
2. Solar drying works as reported.
2. If you poke holes in a bag filled with human excrement expect the water to run out the holes.

 

[TDawg]

A couple of years ago I read a LNT article about solar drying in order to drastic reduce it's weight as feces can be as much as 75% water. Not that I'm a coprophiliac but I was intrigued with the concept. So I decided to give er a go.

Similar to what you described, the practice called "smearing," in this article is no longer promoted by LNT lovers.

I'll stick to dumping and burying everything, thank you very much.

 

[DougPaul]

I'm not sure the critters would be interested in the TP, so much as what the TP was buried with

Supposedly they sometimes use it for nesting material. It might also have a novel scent which "requires" investigation.

Doug

 

[Guthook]

I have read in many places that animals will dig up TP. It seems to be conventional wisdom. Does anyone know: Is there actual observational data supporting this? Or is the observational data just the presence of TP on the surface? This would leave open the question of whether the TP was never buried, or was buried and then brought back to the surface.

I'm skeptical about this. Mice in outhouses go for unused TP and tend to stay away from the pile, or at least that's what the Long Trail caretakers tell me. I know they deal with a lot of poop.

Then there's the disgraceful piles of surface poop with toilet paper that you occasionally see on the trailside... that TP seems to stay with the poop for a mighty long time. Long enough to become a sodden blob. If animals are so keen on digging up catholes, why do they leave the surface poo/paper alone?

 

[dug]

I've seen a few dogs get into it. Makes for a long day.

 

[Little Rickie]

I have read in many places that animals will dig up TP. It seems to be conventional wisdom. Does anyone know: Is there actual observational data supporting this? Or is the observational data just the presence of TP on the surface? This would leave open the question of whether the TP was never buried, or was buried and then brought back to the surface.

Never seen signs of TP being dug up. The signs of TP not being buried is far more common, disturbing and a much greater concern.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I pointed out this classless act to the kids and as strange as it seemed to Katie to be packing out her used TP, she agreed that it was the preferrable alternative to littering the backcountry like these other jerks did. That's my girl!

Photos here.

I was afraid the photos were going to show something other than what they really did, which was a great trip!

 

[Peaks]

Why don't they make camouflage toilet paper?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Why don't they make camouflage toilet paper?

How do you know they don't?

Tim

 

[TCD]

http://www.baronbob.com/camouflage-toiletpaper.htm

First of many hits found on Google.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

http://www.baronbob.com/camouflage-toiletpaper.htm

First of many hits found on Google.

I wonder if the $8/roll charge includes a stencil so you can spray paint a pattern on your butt?

 

[brianW]

I hike with my dog, don't have to worry about doing the dishes

 

[Stan]

The degree and manner in which we practice LNT depends on where we are.

The heavier the use of an area the more the impact so a more fanatical application of LNT is warranted. This is important for both health and aesthetic reasons.

At the other end of the spectrum are remote or sparsely used areas where organic waste can safely be buried or burned with no impact or offense to others.

I can't think of anywhere that inorganic materials should not be packed out.

 

[leaf]

if anyone wants to experience exemplary leave no trace practices, i recommend canoeing the saco river between conway and lovewell pond.

 

[erugs]

I can't think of anywhere that inorganic materials should not be packed out.

There are crevasses on the summit of Monadnock that are repositories. I keep thinking I might go up there with one of those gripping tools meant for reaching high cabinets that are advertised on TV late at night and filling up some bags.Maybe next Earth Day? Or Halloween dressed up as a street cleaning machine?