The carbon footprint of hikers

vftt.org

Help Support vftt.org:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Solitary

New member
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
123
Reaction score
192
I went to a lecture called "Peak Everything" by Richard Heinberg at Keense State College last night. I saw MonadnockVol there (shout out! :D )

Heinberg was not only talking about peak oil production but the depletion of all renewable energy resources. I'm not trying to ignite a debate over the science, but I will say that it was sobering. Here is a link to Heinberg's policy institute:

Post Carbon Institute

Anyway, it made me guilty about those long drives from Keene to the trailheads in the Whites, the 'dacks and Maine. Which leads me to my question:

Does anyone have any information of public (mass) transit to trailheads?
 
There are some NYC members that I know of that would have such a thing. I know the ADK buses go to the Noonmark Diner in Keene Valley and surely they go to Lake Placid.

http://www.trailwaysny.com/

They also go to places in the catskills, like Phoenicia, Tannersville, etc.. I would presume route info and timetables are on their website.

There's also buses and trains that deal more locally to the lower hudson valley. trains that run up East Hudson to breakneck ridge, Cold Springs, etc. And buses that run to Sloatsburg, NY

Jay
 
A bus leaves Concord, NH, every day and stops at EMS in N. Conway. Now if the AMC hiker shuttle stopped there too, me might have the start of something.
 
We're emitting more carbon when we hike, too, if I'm not mistaken - more breaths per minute, resulting in more CO2. Perhaps if we all stop hiking and instead sit around all day, we can reduce our carbon footprint :)
 
Important question

Solitary said:
I went to a lecture called "Peak Everything" by Richard Heinberg at Keense State College last night. I saw MonadnockVol there (shout out! :D )

Heinberg was not only talking about peak oil production but the depletion of all renewable energy resources. I'm not trying to ignite a debate over the science, but I will say that it was sobering. Here is a link to Heinberg's policy institute:

Post Carbon Institute

Anyway, it made me guilty about those long drives from Keene to the trailheads in the Whites, the 'dacks and Maine. Which leads me to my question:

Does anyone have any information of public (mass) transit to trailheads?

It was nice to see you too. A "Solitary sighting" is only slightly more common for me than a moose sighting. ;)

I found the lecture interesting - and sobering - too. I would also be interested in hearing more public transit info, especially about getting to the Whites. But here's some other thoughts:

1) If you add a passenger you have immediately halved your carbon use/hiker ratio (assuming the reduction in gas mileage from the weight of the additional hiker is negligible). I think the Trips & Events section of VFTT could play an important role for hiker carpooling.

2) Instead of a series of day trips, I'm considering staying over in a motel more often. As the price of gas climbs, this makes better economic sense as well.

3) And this last one is idiosyncratic to people like me who hike Monadnock alot and are coming down route 124 from Marlborough: I'm thinking of parking at the OTR trailhead and taking the Parker Trail if I need to go to HQ. That would add 3.2 miles of relatively flat hiking to my day but would cut out 10 miles of driving (both figures round-trip distances). Given the number of times I go to Monadnock, that would add up. Of course, if I really wanted to get in shape, I'd bike to the mountain, climb, and then bike home in the dark (hmmm... that last part doesn't seem like such a good idea).

- Monadnock Volunteer (aka Steve)
 
This is a good thread, doesn't hurt to be aware of one's energy usage and how we contribute...... It's more fun if you car pool as well as hike w another person..... I think we should question whether or not it's worth driving 3-4 hours or more for a day hike......

I've certainly done this so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone... but as the price of energy gets higher and higher one has to look at one's energy usage accordingly. This summer Gail and I plan to pick one or 2 areas to hike and stay longer than we would have normally.... gas prices being one of the main factors, time being another, conservation yet another. We certainly won't be climbing in the whites one day and off to Baxter the next this year.
 
funkyfreddy said:
It's more fun if you car pool as well as hike w another person.....

Maybe. Maybe not. I have had both good and bad experiences with carpooling and hiking. It surely makes sense to do so when you know the people, or you are already friends, or you have common goals. Having been burned twice, I will be extremely careful before carpooling to a hike with 'unknown quantities'. I have also had some really excellent solo hikes where I can go at my speed, stay as long as I want, stop for as many pictures as I'd like, etc.

From a practical impact point of view, it makes much more sense to change your daily commuting habits. If you can work from home one or two days a week, or ride your bicycle to work a few days per week, or carpool to work, those three will save much more energy and reduce one's carbon impact much more so then changing one's hiking patterns. I'm floored that more people aren't interested in carpooling to work. The cost of convenience is still not high enough, I guess.

As for bus service to the Whites... there isn't enough demand, or flexibility to make it either desirable for consumers or profitable for suppliers. Charters, run by organizations like the AMC, can surely make good use of buses.

Personally, I "justify" the impact of driving to the mountains for hiking or skiing by trying to bicycle-commute at least as many miles to work. Not that I need too -- the hiking, fishing or skiing trips (and the bicycle racing long drives back in those days) are justifiable as "mental health care" alone.

Tim
 
Maybe a bike...?

dentonfabrics said:
A bus leaves Concord, NH, every day and stops at EMS in N. Conway. Now if the AMC hiker shuttle stopped there too, me might have the start of something.


I did not know this! I wonder if they allow bikes on the bus? It would be fairly easy to get to some of the closer trailheads that way, if you are geared up for touring. Hmmmm...
 
We're emitting more carbon when we hike, too, if I'm not mistaken - more breaths per minute, resulting in more CO2. Perhaps if we all stop hiking and instead sit around all day, we can reduce our carbon footprin

Living a healthy, physically active lifestyle, in itself, is not a crime against the environment. Until everybody starts doing it in the same places (after reading "Backpacker" magazine :)). But interesting how both organic food and ethanol fuel have raised some controversy in regard to their unanticipated costs, e.g., land use.

The greatest way to reduce your net carbon footprint (beyond transportation and residential demand) is to produce one or zero children (or to adopt). Human overpopulation remains the ultimate threat to resources and the environment (Punch 1). Compounded by increasing affluence (a.k.a., consumption), in "developing" countries (Punch 2).

A cynical counterargument: the population void you create would be filled by other (non-hiking) "mouth-breathers": the same ones who dump ashtrays and fast-food wrappers everywhere.....

Stepping off the box
MR
 
moonrock said:
The greatest way to reduce your net carbon footprint (beyond transportation and residential demand) is to produce one or zero children (or to adopt). Human overpopulation remains the ultimate threat to resources and the environment (Punch 1). Compounded by increasing affluence (a.k.a., consumption), in "developing" countries (Punch 2).

MR
:rolleyes: There are those that agree with you. I think there are more realistic solutions, however. So much so that I really don't feel "Voluntary Human Extinction" is a valid part of any discussion like the one started here. Discussing practical ways to reduce fossil fuel consumption is.
 
<mod hat>
Just a reminder to keep this discussion focused on hiking and by extension getting to the trailhead. While the rest of this is interesting, it's not appropriate for the site under our rules.

-dave-

</mh>
 
HITCHhiking is always interesting, I hitchhiked back and forth to high school my senior year and after a while you see a lot of the same people and get "regular" rides. Course that was like 15 years ago too... - you might want to buy a gun :eek: :D

As far as carpooling is concerned - you don't always have to do the same hike or at the same pace, just need to be willing to compromise a little and not be overly concerned with "complete" convenience. Too bad more people aren't willing to compromise in general...
 
funkyfreddy said:
This is a good thread, doesn't hurt to be aware of one's energy usage and how we contribute...... It's more fun if you car pool as well as hike w another person..... I think we should question whether or not it's worth driving 3-4 hours or more for a day hike......

I've certainly done this so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone... but as the price of energy gets higher and higher one has to look at one's energy usage accordingly. This summer Gail and I plan to pick one or 2 areas to hike and stay longer than we would have normally.... gas prices being one of the main factors, time being another, conservation yet another. We certainly won't be climbing in the whites one day and off to Baxter the next this year.

I echo Freddy here, at least in regards to my own behavior. My drive limit for a dayhike is about an hour and a half, although I very occasionally make exceptions. I'm lucky enough to live close to some excellent hiking in the Catskills and Shawangunks. If I go to the ADKs, VT, the Whites, etc., it's got to be for at least a few days to make it worth while.

I was just thinking last night about summer plans, and I think I'm going try to tighten the belt a little more in terms of weekly gas consumption. I typically go to the Catskills once per weekend and maybe bike the other day or hike in the Gunks. The change I may make this summer is to maybe skip the Catskills some weekends, instead maybe going every other weekend and doing more overnights instead of just dayhikes.

Matt
 
The carbon footprints of hikers?

I use aluminum poles. :p :p :p :p :p :p

You guys are too serious sometimes... :D

Jay
 
I'd like to be able to car pool to the trailhead more often but loop hikes are not always an option and car spots are necessary. I have used a bicycle at times. I do think about how to save gas and reducing my carbon footprint in my planning but it does not always work out. I am still getting in the car and going hiking!
 
Good thread. Hiking is modern recreation, and just because it has to do with nature, doesn't make commuting to a mountain different from commuting on Rt 128 on a weekday morning (I used to reach Rt. 2 towards Monadnock on 128).
Driving more than an hour from North Conway to Mt Aziscohos for a 3 mile round trip hike always seemed ironic.
I enjoyed reading in Our Mountain Trips about taking the train from Portsmouth, staying at a farmhouse and climbing a mountain the next day.
 
Grayjay said:
Good thread. Hiking is modern recreation, and just because it has to do with nature, doesn't make commuting to a mountain different from commuting on Rt 128 on a weekday morning

Yes, Yes, Yes! This statement is HUGELY relevant for our kind! I think too many of us outdoorsy folks thing we are already environmentalists and that we are already doing our part and that the talk of the day is geared for the poor slobs coming out of Wal-mart that can't help themselves from buying all the crap that marketing sells to them, while they unload their ATVs from the back of their 16 mpg pickups, so they can erode the soil [see how I just perpetuated the US vs. THEM debate by rolling it all into one evil other person?]

I'm having a personal battle with lowering my footprint:

1. A year or so ago, I sold my truck and bought a Subaru (16 to 25 MPG - not that great a difference, unfortunately). Recognizing that 25 MPG is still a lot more than zero G, this past fall and winter I started riding the bus. Between waiting at the stop and having to make one change, my 23 minute drive (each way) went to an 85 minute ordeal, adding a total of about 2 hours to my day. I lasted about six weeks before I gave up and went back to driving my car each day. For a few years I had a great carpool partner. We had very similar schedules and live within .5 mile of each other. He moved away and I've yet to find another good partner. But I'm looking.

2. This past fall Joanna and I decided to insulate our house. We had run some economical analyses and decided it was hard to justify at this stage in our lives when the chances of us being here long enough to "pay it back" were slim to none. Well, we decided to bite the bullet and do it anyway. I just finished the first winter analyses, corrected for degree days and we reduced our oil consumption by 41%! It will now take just over 4 years to pay for itself, not including the return that will come from increased house value when we sell.

3. I've used several of the online carbon footprint calculators and something I've realized is that all the recycling in the world doesn't put a dent in a couple of airline trips per year. I fly a modest number of times each year compare to many folks but those flights really counteract everything else I do to try to avoid consumption. I've done a bit of web-based conferencing and have used Skype for a host of meetings, but I think we all recognize it isn't the same as meeting in person. We need to invest in technologies to improve our distance communications skills.

4. Awareness will make a difference. I'm astonished how much new talk there is about climate change and the need to do something to adjust. In the past year, the awareness of the general public has become very impressive. I'll wager that NPR will get a very important, national, or international award for their year-long series on climate change. They've done a great job of getting the word out about the entire breadth of the subject. Now we just need the Fox News types and other useless media to get on board. Just the fact that Solitary brought this up is impressive and it hasn't been the first CC-related thread.

So, go out, calculate your impact and figure out where you can reduce impact. DO NOT THINK YOU ARE ALREADY DOING YOUR PART b/c you aren't. We may be doing small things here and there but we have barely scraped the service of the lifestyle changes we need to foster. You know how people say that diets don't work - that you really need to change your lifestyle. Well, that applies here, too.

P.S. - Don't blame it on the developing nations. They are merely following our example. We need to set a new example where reduction is appealing. We have a lot more room to adjust/counteract/improve the footprint than the developing world. If you believe the developing nations are responsible for CC problems, you are perpetuating a consumption ethic and I don't want you in my carpool.

Nature Conservancy Calculator - Do it now!
 
We added insulation to our attic, atop the existing, builder-installed insulation, bringing the R factor up from 30 to 45. This year, we used 500 gals of oil, compared to 600 last year. The thermostat, if set at 63, would never show a temperature above 63 last year, and this year would often continue rising after it shut off, almost always showing 64. This allowed us to put it down one extra degree in practice. These are both attributable to the insulation. Plus we got a reasonably attractive tax credit on our federal income taxes this year.

BTW, Spencer, I dislike being told I am not doing my part. I am doing about as much as is practical to do, without downsizing my house, and never going anywhere. Perhaps what you meant to say is "We all could be doing more."

Tim
 
Last edited:
Top