Why you should NOT do trail maintenance...

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Tom Rankin

Tom Rankin

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... unless you know what you are doing! More on that in a moment.

We went to Thomas Cole Sunday from the Elmer Barnum Road PA. It was raining and once in a while there was a little thunder and lightning in the distance. There were a few blow downs but they were easily skirted. There are a few herd paths forming around some of them.

Some misguided person has cut down a fair number of low hanging branches. But they cut them off at about 5.5 Feet! :eek: Now there are lots of sharp sticks just waiting to poke someone in the eye! :eek: Laurie got poked on the head by one of these gems as she was leading the way with her head down in the pouring rain. It stunned her and she staggered back and saw stars for about a minute! :mad:

So PLEASE! Do NOT do any trail maintenance unless you are trained and approved by the local authorities! This type of cutting is worse than none at all!
 
BIGEarl said:
A good topic for the General Backcountry forum? :rolleyes:
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Fine by me. I can't move it, but a Mod can.

I started writing a TR, but unfortunately, the highlight (lowlight?) of the trip was Laurie's whacking her head into a sharp stick.
 
Moved.

Bad trailwork can definitely be worse then no trailwork. It takes just as much effort to cut the branch right next to the tree as it does to leave a spike. It's frustrating to see stuff like that.
 
Agreed. Last year on the NP trail, I saw a couple spots of bad trailwork. The disturbing part was that it was well marked with "official" trail markers. I'm not sure if it was approved by the local authorities or not, but it lacked common sense, that's for sure.

TCD
 
David Metsky said:
It takes just as much effort to cut the branch right next to the tree as it does to leave a spike.
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Wish that was true. Sometimes with a low-hanging branch the joint is too high to reach with ordinary clippers and not every trail maintainer has a pole saw. Then there's the case of a bushy branch where you can only reach in so far to clip, it takes several steps to reach the trunk and somebody doesn't bother to do them all.

But anybody but Cub Scouts ought to be able to reach more than 5.5 feet. Of course even if you reach 8 feet that can poke eyes in the winter.
 
RoySwkr said:
Then there's the case of a bushy branch where you can only reach in so far to clip, it takes several steps to reach the trunk and somebody doesn't bother to do them all.
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All true, I was a little flip in my response. But that's no excuse for not doing it right. :)
 
Tom RankinSo PLEASE! Do NOT do any trail maintenance unless you are trained and approved by the local authorities![/QUOTE said:
Well...that's a bummer that someone did some hacking, hope Laurie's ok.

Let's not discourage hikers on this board from caring for the trails without official governmental or trail club training certification. In New Hampshire, that sort of approach doesn't really fly. Who are "local authorities" of trails?

I'll continue to care for the trails, and I'll never ask the government or the AMC to teach me and certify me. It's just trail work. One hacker with lopers isn't all that big of a deal.

Happy Trails :)
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forestgnome said:
Who are "local authorities" of trails?
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Every trail has a listed maintainer organization in the AMC guide.

Moving or cutting up blowdowns I don't have a problem with. But I've seen well meaning hikers do overzealous pruning that end up leading to more erosion or leave 1 foot high stumps that just make my job more difficult. Common sense goes a long way with a little education.
 
forestgnome said:
Well...that's a bummer that someone did some hacking, hope Laurie's ok.

Let's not discourage hikers on this board from caring for the trails without official governmental or trail club training certification. In New Hampshire, that sort of approach doesn't really fly. Who are "local authorities" of trails?

I'll continue to care for the trails, and I'll never ask the government or the AMC to teach me and certify me. It's just trail work. One hacker with lopers isn't all that big of a deal.
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Laurie will be fine.

FG: I was posting about NY. In NY, the DEC does not condone concerted trail maintenance w/o permission and training. If you want to push a rotten log off the trail, no one will object in any state. But I would hope that this sort of incident would at least make people aware of the need for responsible trail maintenance.
 
Since I wasn't there I won't presume ... but often trees settle after they've been correctly pruned -- well off the path -- and creep back into the hiker's way. When I do maintenance I try to anticipate how things might progress with gravity, wear, etc. but nature is a fickle woman. Sorry for Laurie's noggin. I've felt her pain. As for pokers ... they usually are not things out of reach, but are close-quarters broken branches on herd paths snapped by hikers en route, not part of any maintenance regimen. The adopted herd paths I work on (ADK trailless) are being weeded for pokers (or a less sociable term I usually call them), but in the ADKS a true democratic system is in play. Some adopters hate them, and weed them out ... others think they "add" to the hiking experience as some sort of challenge and leave them there for people's enjoyment. In the end, being aware of one's surroundings is the first step before taking a step ... well, anywhere. ;)
 
Tom Rankin said:
Laurie will be fine.

FG: I was posting about NY. In NY, the DEC does not condone concerted trail maintenance w/o permission and training. If you want to push a rotten log off the trail, no one will object in any state. But I would hope that this sort of incident would at least make people aware of the need for responsible trail maintenance.
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Good enough! I was reacting to "do not do any trail maintenance unless you are trained and approved by the local authorities". There will be occassional newbies who think they are helping, but are really hacking. Regular hikers are a positive force for the trails, making minor repairs on a regular basis that would not happen without us. This should be encouraged. The benefit far outweighs any occassional hacking, which will happen anyway.

At least in WMNF, AMC and other clubs are not "authorities" in any way. They have absolutely no ownership or authority over the trails or citizens. USFS alone has authority, and maintenance of unoffocial trails is illegal. This approach has worked very well for a long time. However it's done in NY is another matter.

Happy Trails :)
 
Several weeks ago I did a reconnaissance of my trail and found 11 blowdowns. Some of the branches were hacked off to allow passage. Not wanting to leave the blowdowns in such a hazardous state, I cut my two night hut trip short and returned with axe and saw and removed all the branches flush to the body of the tree. Some people carry a folding sew with them for just this reason. They are not doing trail maintenance per se, just cutting the branch enough to allow passage. I discovered all of the blowdowns had this hacking characteristic. I have since, cleared all the blowdowns that were removable and cut all the branches where the tree was too large to remove myself. I do not condone this behavior, but I do understand it.
 
forestgnome said:
At least in WMNF, AMC and other clubs are not "authorities" in any way. They have absolutely no ownership or authority over the trails or citizens.
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The WMNF has designated these organizations (AMC, RMC, DOC, WODC, etc) as the trail maintainers. They are charged with organizing maintenance work for those trail. While the WMNF is the ultimate authority, the designated groups run the day-to-day work on the trails. Unauthorized work is not allowed, whether it is on official or unofficial trails.

I worked under this system for the DOC and if I found anyone doing unauthorized work on my trails (beyond removing blowdowns) I would have asked them to stop. It's the same with the Park Service and the AT. Actually, I probably would ask them to stop their efforts and work with me. :)
 
David Metsky said:
The WMNF has designated these organizations (AMC, RMC, DOC, WODC, etc) as the trail maintainers. They are charged with organizing maintenance work for those trail. While the WMNF is the ultimate authority, the designated groups run the day-to-day work on the trails. Unauthorized work is not allowed, whether it is on official or unofficial trails.

I worked under this system for the DOC and if I found anyone doing unauthorized work on my trails (beyond removing blowdowns) I would have asked them to stop. It's the same with the Park Service and the AT. Actually, I probably would ask them to stop their efforts and work with me. :)
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As usual, Dave gives it straight up! And perhaps you can answer this.........I THINK the respective organizations are required to get permits from the USFS to do work on these trails, true?

Brian
 
David Metsky said:
The WMNF has designated these organizations (AMC, RMC, DOC, WODC, etc) as the trail maintainers. They are charged with organizing maintenance work for those trail. While the WMNF is the ultimate authority, the designated groups run the day-to-day work on the trails. Unauthorized work is not allowed, whether it is on official or unofficial trails.

I worked under this system for the DOC and if I found anyone doing unauthorized work on my trails (beyond removing blowdowns) I would have asked them to stop. It's the same with the Park Service and the AT. Actually, I probably would ask them to stop their efforts and work with me. :)
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I guess this is just semantics. You and Tom R. are perhaps correct in some meaning of the term "local authorities". Trail crews may be authorized by USFS to do trail work, but trail crew members are definately without any authority over hikers, not that the OP said otherwise. It's just that the term "authority" makes me wince. I've experienced crew who thought they could order me around. One time I was yelled at to get back on the trail. It's a temporary downer setting idiots straight.

Now, the OP also stated "any trail maintenance". I was reacting to that. USFS kiosks ask hikers to make minor repairs to trails. I will always do this with pride, such as dragging off blowdown, replacing rocks to screewalls, removing trash, clearing waterbars, burying used toilet paper, etc. I will never seek training or authorization to do so.

I appreciate the excellent major work of the crews, but there's a whole lot more that must be done on a regular basis that is not done by crews. Leaving it all up to the crews would be a very bad idea. I love the trails too much for that.

Happy Trails :)
 
NewHampshire said:
I THINK the respective organizations are required to get permits from the USFS to do work on these trails, true?
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For major projects, we've done plans with the USFS before starting work. These include relocations, major bridges, and significant rock work. Shelters were a larger undertaking. I don't know if permits were ever involved, but there was definitely some paperwork.

For general maintenance we just did the work. That was brushing, cutting blowdowns, building rock steps and small bridges, and signs. I don't know if things have changed since then (1980's).

-dave-
 
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