A Tricky Scenario

[Undershaft]

Hi everyone, I need some advice....
I am attempting to turn two non-hiking friends into hiking friends. I tried this once before back in 2002 with my close friend Amy and I failed. Not only does Amy dislike hiking, she will no longer go anywhere near mountains with me for fear that I might make her walk uphill. To this day Amy hates me for "what I did to her" (We hiked the Hale Brook trail, 10/1/02, no crowds or bugs, sunny with a high around 80F, with no real time constraints; in other words a perfect day in the White Mtns). I am afraid of turning two more friends off of hiking and wanted to get some advice and opinions on the subject.

Here's the scenario: Sheila and Matt are good friends of mine. We get together and hang out almost every weekend. I have been telling them about my hikes for years. I have shown them hundreds of pictures I've taken on the trails and they enjoy seeing my photos. I loaned them my Appalachian Impressions DVD and watching it made them even more interested and excited about hiking. They are very supportive of my plans to hike half of the AT next summer. Both Sheila and Matt have quizzed me on gear and technique and I think they're about ready to take the plunge and do some real hiking( by "real" I mean farther than a half mile from the trailhead to the destination).
This is where it gets tricky. Now that I have sparked their interest and asked them to come for a hike in the Whites with me, how do I avoid F***ing it up like last time? I understand some folks just aren't into walking up the sides of mountains and I am prepared to accept that, but I feel like I should be proactive this time. Plan the hike with the sole intention of making it an experience they will want to repeat. Any ideas on how to do that? Has anyone here ever been in a situation like this before(if so, how did it work out)? I'm planning to keep the miles low(7 or less round trip) and the terrain relatively easy, but I feel there also needs to be a rewarding view from the top. Any suggestions for good trails to hike? We will most likely be in the N. Conway area on a Sunday. My friends are newlyweds in their 20's and reasonably fit. Their experience is limited to short dayhikes. Any advice, suggestions, or comments are appreciated! I really want to make this a quality experience for all of us. Thanks in advance and I apologize for making this post so long.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

This is just a hunch re: your friend Amy, but ... you probably pushed her beyond her limits, and may have mislead her in some way (at least in her mind).

It sounds like Sheila and Matt are two informed consenting adults, so arrange a hike with them. Be sure to tell them that if they want to run around at any time, that's fine. If one of them does, be sure to honor your committment without attempting to coax them a little further.

FWIW - I've seen countless young men pleading/cajoling/begging/ordering their young lady friend up a hill. When I look at her face, it's obvious (to me, perhaps not the young man) she's at the point of hating the hike. If I'm with others we joke (after we're out of earshot) that the young man is in for a very painful ride home! Am not suggesting that scenario occurred with your friend Amy, however.

Anyway, good luck. It's very decent of you to invest your time/energy in helping friends try hiking, but ... don't be too disappointed if they don't hike a second time. Hiking is really strenous, and not for everyone, despite your best effort.

Kevin

 

[BorealChickadee]

I know absolutely nothing about the Wite Mountains since I live in new York but I have taken other people hiking with me and they loved it. I would start with a beautiful walk through the woods with the destination being a stunning lake, one with rocks on the shore, not mud, so they can sit along the shore and enjoy the day. How about taking some food to cook on a quick fire, even tubes of mystery meat will do. Then... next hike a smaller mountain with great views. The idea is not to kill them off. Remember right now it's hot and humid. What a regular hiker is used to in this heat will absolutely turn off someone not used to the woods. Heat and that horse fly buzzing around their head and you'll likely not see them ever again. When you took Amy out for a hike in 80 degrees whether it's October or July, that can be pretty hot for someone not used to it. Tuck away some icy cold drinks in your pack so there is a reward at either the lake or the top.

We tend to think that everyone will just love what we do. Well I just loved pushing my way through dense growth up on the ridge two weeks ago to Grace but it takes a while to get to that point for most people. Ease them in.

 

[JeffAndrews]

For me, and I suspect many others, a lot of the fun of a hike is the planning that goes into it ahead of time. If I just showed up at a trailhead and hiked to the top of a mountain that I knew nothing about I think it would lack something in appeal.

Therefore, I would suggest that instead of taking them on a hike you might want to plan a hike with them. Obviously it would be helpful if you came with some suggestions, but if you get them involved before the hike they will be more invested in it and will hopefully get more out of it. And it will take some of the pressure off of you, too.

 

[MattC]

I have no idea what's gonna work for you, but here's a brief take on my experience of late. I have many very good friends that are fascinated by my hiking, and that have a vague interest in trying it themselves. Out of them, a few have come out w/ me for a short hike or two. Out of this group, even fewer (2 or 3) have expressed interest in getting more into hiking. Basically, whenever the topic comes up w/ any of these friends, I try to let them know that:

1) Whether or not they ever set foot on a trail doesn't matter one bit in terms of our friendship. I love 'em all anyway.

2) But, if they do want to hike, they are always very welcome to come along, and

3) The only reason I encourage them to come along is because I think hiking is an incredibly positive part of my life that I'd love to share with them, but see 1)

So, yesterday two friends (a couple) came hiking with me-a short hike on the Shawangunk Ridge, 15 minutes from where we live. I asked them several questions before we started-How long are you good for?, Are you okay w/ some uphill?, etc.

We only did maybe 2-3 miles w/ about 5 or 6 hundred feet of vertical, just enough for them to feel like they got a little workout. We picked wild blueberries and enjoyed some outstanding views from open ledges. After the walk we cooled off in the nearby swimming hole. They loved the entire afternoon. The hike was not much compared to a lot of stuff I do, but I had a blast regardless. So I guess communicating w/ your friends and being sure they're having fun is really important. Treat it like it's their hike, not yours. Good luck.

Matt

 

[Willoughby]

Undershaft,

I am doing something similar with my son (8 years), trying to turn him on to hiking (and into a future hiking companion). I routinely take him on hikes I wouldn't do otherwise, because I'm investing in the future. My rules: make sure (as much as possible) that he will summit, pick summits with a view, and limit the distance, the altitude gain, and the rock-hopping. We've had several good hikes along the Wapack trail.

For your friends, you might want to pick one of the smaller mountains around the big ranges. For example, Mt Willard is well spoken-of (I haven't climbed it myself). Mt Avalon nearby, which has stunning views, violates the steepness rule. Mt Hale doesn't have great views either.

You know your friends better than I, but 7 miles in the Whites doesn't necessarily sound easy for first-timers.

Good luck!

 

[Davehiker]

It sounds like good advice from the others. I've had good luck hiking with my oldest, but his sisters DEFINATELY don't like hiking, and they're much too old to force!

For specific hikes around N. Conway, here are a few suggestions:

Peaked Mountain in the Green Hills of Conway offers a nice walk with a 4.2 mi. round-trip, with only 500 ft. of elevation. Nice views of Conway, and varied terrain. Check the books or maps for loop possibilities.

Mt. Doublehead in Jackson is a beautiful hike, with great summit views. About 3.6 miles round trip, and 1600 ft. of elevation. Again, there are loop hikes to check out, including South Doublehead.

Mt. Kearsage North is a classic Conway area hike, again with spectacular views, but is a longer undertaking at 6.2 miles with 2600 ft. of elevation.

North Moat Mt. is another Conway classic, but also a significant hike with the loop over N. Moat and down Red Ridge Trail being about 10 miles and 2800 ft. of elevation.

As Willoughby mentioned, Mt. Willard in Crawford Notch offers great bang-for-the-buck with spectacular views down the Notch for 3.2 miles RT and 900 ft. of elevation.

Consider the Sugarloaves in the Zealand area. One or both can be done in a reasonable trip, as a round trip of both is 3.4 miles with 1000 ft. of elevation. I remember nice open rocky summits, with nice views across to the Presis.

Whatever you choose, hope for good weather, and as mcorsar says, treat it like it's their hike, not yours. Good luck!

 

[Mike P.]

I like Dave's list for hikes in the N. Conway

Also consider Crawford Dome

 

[forestgnome]

Mt Hale was probably a bad choice, too long and less than stunning views. However, Amy probably wouldn't have been impressed with a shorter hike with great views, just less irritated. Thankfully, most people just are not mountain hikers.

Sheila and Matt are expressing interest before trying it. To me, this much different. So, try a shorter hike with great views. I would guess that the views are most important. Hike as slowly as they want to. Don't over hype the views or the experience, let them see for themselves. Allow them the discovery.

Happy Trails

 

[REK]

Just a couple of suggestions along with the the great recommendations. Try Glen Boulder Trail. It gets you up to tree line in a hurry, its got some fun stuff down below, and when you get up you can venture as far as you feel comfortable. The views are superb. My father hooked me on hiking as a little kid on this trail. If a summit is necessary, "I Like Ike". Edmands path is a great trail. Nothing steep and you actually walk into the alpine zone on the level. Once in the col you can then decide whether or not to hit the summit. The thing I like about hikes like these is that Mt Washington is looming over you the entire time. You have some views upward and they tend to beckon you to come back. Of course none of this applies if the weather sucks.

While I really enjoyed Mt Hale; it's a very neat place, to a newcomer it can be described as a major yawn. Two miles up to a summit that you cant see anything from. Unfortunately I have trouble comprehending why others don't think a hike like this is absolutely wonderful and I try to get them to feel the same way I do about it. (Never ask my wife about Black Mt. Cabin!)

If the sky is clear the views should speak for themselves.
Let us know how you make out.

Bob

 

[rocksnrolls]

Another nice hike in the N Conway area to consider is the Mt Stanton Tr. It's relatively easy, has a bunch of peaks along it - Stanton, Pickering, the Crippies, Langdon - with views mostly to the south. And it's the start of the Montalban Ridge which heads up to Mt Washington.

 

[sapblatt]

I admire what you are trying to do - in some sense I am going throught this with my 3 1/2 year old son who as of right now thinks everything that dad does is cool and loves hiking. My big concern is keeping him interested. I am doing that by only hiking to easy destinations that have a view. Willard, Black Cap, Indian Head, etc...I was toying with Mount Pierce but thought better of it.

I tried to get my best friend into hiking once - had a nice hike on a perfect day on the Osceolas with him and we tried again to go to Lafayette and as soon as it started to sprinkle out we were heading back to the car. 4 hour RT drive for 20 minutes of hiking...

Your friends sound like they will be fine - do not compare them with "Amy"...

MY THREE BIG TIPS

1. I would suggest keeping the hikes simple (5-7 miles RT at the most) - no 10-12 milers!
2. Also, more importantly keep the elevation gain in the 2000 feet range - no 6000 foot days - keeping it around 1000 feet or less per mile makes it pretty moderate in most cases - re: no Mount Washington, no traverses, no Kings Ravine!
3. Last and not least - have a view!!! Taking them up Tecumseh is not the answer - if they have a pleasant walk and a nice view they may have found a new hobby and new reason to live!

So - where do you go (i just chose 4ks...there are plenty of other great places like Welch Dickey, Black Cap, Potash, etc)...(a lot of these are close to North Conway - not all)

Osceola from Tripoli Road (unless things are going very well I would skip the east peak)
Pierce via Crawford Path
Jackson via Crawford Path and Mizpah cutoff
This one is a little longer, but pretty nice and easy - Garfield.

Good luck!!

 

[kerry13]

Good luck. No way there is a tried and true method to get some to like hiking. Even now I have my days and often ask myself, "self, just why is it that you do this"? I too have seen many people well in over their head and their friends and spouses sitting there pushing them to keep going. Those folks won't be back. We all need to be pushed and supported at some point but not on the first few hikes. To most the views are nice, to some stunning and to others, all that for this. I find good conversation is helpful. Stop often. Know the hike yourself and be able to act as tour guide but most of all don't over do it. 7 miles in the woods on a rooted trail is a long hike for a first time. Throw in rock hopping and moderate elevation gain and it get tougher fast. Remember the hike isn't over for those first timers when they hit the bottom. Being so sore you can't walk for 3-4 days isn't fun either. Several nice first time hikes have been mentioned. I agree with Mt Willard, that was my first and the views from the ledge will capture anyone. Avalon has great views but might be a tough climb for a beginner as is Keasarge North, in my opinion. My ex crapped out on the first ledges of Keasarge and would never try hiking again. Black Cap Mtn of Hurricane Rd is a great beginner with great views, as is Welch Dickey Loop.

 

[marty]

Lots of great advice so far. I suggest encouraging them to eat a good meal and drink lots of water (camel up) just before the hike and to bring snacks to eat on the way. This will help them keep their strength up, avoid dehydration and perhaps give them more confidence that they can get 'er done.

Regards,
Marty

 

[Toe Cozy]

For me, and I suspect many others, a lot of the fun of a hike is the planning that goes into it ahead of time. If I just showed up at a trailhead and hiked to the top of a mountain that I knew nothing about I think it would lack something in appeal.

Therefore, I would suggest that instead of taking them on a hike you might want to plan a hike with them. Obviously it would be helpful if you came with some suggestions, but if you get them involved before the hike they will be more invested in it and will hopefully get more out of it. And it will take some of the pressure off of you, too.

I think this is a great idea. Maybe you could choose 4 or 5 different hikes. Get together and read the highlights of the hike descriptions out loud, look at the maps together to show the route you'd be taking and see which one sounds interesting to them. Of course, it they don't seem to be into the planning part, abort that idea!

Also, I'm in favor of bringing along some kind of tasty snack to crack out at the destination as a surprise. Round out the day with a swimming hole if possible and a tasty dinner at a place with good beer and hopefully you'll have some converts! Good luck.

May your friends find joy in the outdoors and may you find new hiking companions!

 

[giggy]

I will join the croo that says - best bang for the buck - meaning, good views for minimal distance and toughness. If you take them to say zealand - they might be like - whats the big deal.

I find that folks who never hiked before (and are somewhat fit) - wt washington is a good one too - via tucks (or jewell/ammo) Its pretty easy to hermit lake, where you get stunning views of the ravine, etc - and then those views doesn't stop until the top. AND - you can call it quits in or at the top of the ravine - and there is your 6 mile (2000 or so ele) day.

continue to point out features for people and give some history - I find people love that.

i donno - just a thought. I find resonably fit people can do a hike up washingtion with no problems in good weather.

 

[--M.]

Karma: Go with the flow...

Through painful experience, I've discovered that I no longer profit from dragging friends to things I love.

I believe the key is to focus on answering the question asked and letting them decide the pace and outcome.

Best wishes; I hope things go great!

 

[nartreb]

Actually I was going to suggest Zealand. It's an almost flat hike to the hut where you can cool off at the falls, then you get a rather good view from the Zeacliff overlook. Hiking isn't always about vertical gain.
Of course, if they're interested in the above-treeline feeling, you'll want to go elsewhere. It's out of your way, but Cardigan offers big views and cool breezes for very little effort (if you approach from the state park on the west side). Or if your friends aren't afraid of some mildly exposed easy scrambling, try South Baldface. Come to think of it, there's a whole list of smaller gems somewhere. Ah, here it is: 52 with a view

 

[JohnL]

Set some expectations up front. Make sure they know exactly what they are going to do and have a good discussion about the hike and what it entails. Let them know how long you think it will take your party to get to the top, rest, and get back down. You don’t want people hiking for five hours when they thought it would only take three. Let them read the trail descriptions in the guide book.

Nartreb beat me to the suggestion of 52 with a view. Lonesome Lake, Greeley Ponds, Arethusa Falls, and other “water hikes” are all excellent beginner hikes as well.

Above all, make sure they have fun. Good luck.

JohnL

 

[Undershaft]

Thanks

Thank you all so much for the great ideas and suggestions! I wasn't expecting so many replies this quickly. I really want this hike to go well and I want to avoid the mistakes of the past. My friend Amy(whom I'm still close friends with)was not interested in becoming a hiker, but her boyfriend and I were going and she decided to try it. We confirmed her belief that car camping is where its at. I got most of the blame because I chose the trail. As the replies have noted, Matt & Sheila are alot different because they do have interest. JeffAndrews and Toe Cozy's ideas of getting them involved in the planning is a great one. Now that I have a whole slew of great hike suggestions, I think I will present them and let S.&M. decide after we study the maps and trail guides together. I really appreciate all this help. My mind tends to focus on two things: the AT, and the 4k's. I pretty much overlook everything else. I realize that I cannot be forceful in guiding them into hiking, but I feel I should do everything possible to ensure they have a good time. I'm really just so excited that my friends want to join me on a hike. Marty: your advice on staying well hydrated and fed is good stuff. It's something that is easily overlooked by beginners(cuz they don't know any better) and experienced hikers(cuz they have already learned that lesson). I think I will have my friends make a list of what they DON'T want to do. For example, Sheila has already ruled out Washington and Matt has set a max. time limit of 8 hours round trip. I have decided 7 miles is the absolute max. RT milage I will do with them(5 miles is probably ideal). As mcorsar pointed out, this hike needs to be about them, not me.

Thank you again, everyone, for all the help and advice. I really do appreciate the courtesy, encouragement, and wisdom of all the members of VFTT. I will definately write a trip report after we get home from whichever hike we choose. Hopefully, two new hikers will be joining the ranks of those who love the mountains.