"Full" Winter Gear?

[cooperhill]

I'm new to winter hiking and wondering what others more experienced on VFFT would define as "full winter gear". What are you carrying now, over and above gear for a fall hike, when climbing in the whites, especially above treeline?

Are Plastic boots or similar winter footwear needed now? Also, I've always wondered when to bring snowshoes - are folks already carrying them? In terms of clothing, do you wear full gore-tex? On the few winter hikes I've done I started out in long johns and shorts and moved up to a pair of schoeller Mammut pants and extra layers.

I know most of this comes from experience but I'm hoping some of you can get me started in the right direction. Thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------

Chris

 

[carole]

I would consider “full winter gear” as enough layers (head to toe) to keep you warm and dry through the night even if it a day hike. That may include a sleeping bag and should include some kind of insulating ground pad. Same applies for the feet - boot and socks that will keep you warm enough for the conditions overnight. Traction devices as conditions warrant.

That said I have never worn plastic boots (LaSportiva K2’s / insulated leather have worked for me for many winters). I wouldn’t carry snowshoes yet but would take at least Stabilicers.

 

[MichaelJ]

I do not start wearing plastics until most of my hike is going to be on snow. At this point, with just a few inches in the higher elevations, I'll stick to my heavy leathers.

For snowshoes, once I hear there's at *least* a foot of snow where I'm going, I'll start to carry them. Anything less than that isn't really going to posthole and I don't mind the occasional grind through a drift. Note that in the ADKs it's a requirement to have them once two feet of snow are on the ground.

I'm now wearing long johns and shorts, with shell pants along in the pack, for below-treeline hikes. If I expect to be in any exposure, I bring the winter shell pants. I rarely wear anything warmer on my legs than polypro long johns and the heavy shell pants; it takes super cold for that.

The real musts for right now are gloves with overmitts, warm (windblock) hat and neck gaiter, full balaclava and goggles if going above treeline, traction control (stabilicers, possibly crampons), hand and toe warmers in the pack, extra headlamp and batteries, extra food, down jacket for emergencies, possibly sleeping bag and/or stove for emergencies, and lip balm.

 

[sapblatt]

I do not wear winter boots - Sorels do fine...
The key is being able to get thru a night if you have to...enough layers, possibly a sleeping bag and shelter (bivy bag), etc...I also think a stove and warm drinks are a good idea. IT all depends on how far you will be from safety if things go bad...it does not take much to create a bad situation in the mountains and when it is 0 degrees out, it takes even less.

 

[David Metsky]

Face mask/balaclava, overmitts, extra mittens/gloves, goggles, second headlamp, insulated water bottles, thermos of hot liquids, insulated pants, down jacket, ground pad, bivy

 

[--M.]

<Pedagogy hat on>

I'd emphasize gloves & headgear, and a wind/water barrier that you can stuff with layers. If above treeline, don't forget goggles. A top with a hood is helpful.

If your three-season boots will take the cold & wet, then you probably wouldn't need plastics unless you plan on overnighting (and even then...).

I tend to heat up and stay hot until a break, requiring the ability to layer and de-layer quickly. I find it's vital to have the outer shell (and Precip has worked well so far -- surprise!) and the available DRY inner layers handy.

Snowshoes get brought in the car. A determination is made at the trailhead to carry, wear, or leave behind. If the snowshoes must also compete with skis or other traction gear, weight becomes an issue. For Zealand from the north, for example, one could ski in with shoes on the pack, leaving skis when the switch to snowshoes is made. Or, you could leave the snowshoes in the car and just ski all the way, switching to traction on steep ascents. In the 'Dacks, you MUST have skis/shoes and are required to use one or the other to avoid postholing.

Switch from a gas-powered Optimus 8R to a lightweight Pepsi stove (and even then, just as emergency gear), and don't forget you'll need more water than in summer, not less.

If there are multiple people in your group, one can bring a bivy sack and another a sleeping bag or heavy down parka. If solo, it's tougher to bring all that stuff, so keep to a popular route and don't get hurt!

Beware especially the concept of "above treeline" in winter conditions. Winter hiking is one thing, but above treeline is a whole other world, and it bites down hard if you screw up. Think of your mom, and keep it together!

Above all, it's supposed to be fun!

<Pedagogy hat off!>

 

[jime]

More...

Normally, I will take more and bigger as in bigger jacket, more food etc.

To be more specific a few things that I will add to the pack are:
My big, poofy down jacket with hood.
2-3 warm hats
2-3 sets of gloves/mittens/shells
Waterproof, breathable pants with side zips (I normally just use pull on pants in the summer).
Bivy sack
Insulated covers for my wide mouth water bottles
4-6 handwarmers

And depending on the conditions ice axe and crampons although I have rarely used the ice axe in the east. But when you need it, it's nice/mandatory to have.

I have plastic double boots but will let the conditions dictate whether or not I use them or regular hiking boots or some other type of insulated boots. If I opt for my leather hikers then I will always have my super warm (and light) down booties in my pack...just in case.

Many times I will also take a thermos with cocoa or soup with me for lunch.

I love winter hiking!!!

P.S. I also love this type of thread because I learn so much from others! Great question!

 

[dr_wu002]

Just get some necessary things like gloves, traction devices (it gets icy in the late fall before the snow), hats etc and go for a few 'test drives'. My first "Winter" hike was on Mt. Crawford. I realized that my snowshoes were horrible, I was way overdressed and I needed new boots. But it didn't matter because I went on a decent day and I was only 2.5 miles from the road (and with somebody). My next few winter hikes I continued to work out the kinks. Now I have a certain "method" for winter hiking. But the funny thing is, on that first winter hike of the season where I take the heavier pack and the snowshoes etc, I'm always confused and searching for crap in my pack, forgetting things etc. You gotta change yer mindset.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Neil]

Try doing a Google search for "winter checklists" or something like that. Also, read lots of winter trip reports.

I made an exhaustive winter dayhike checklist for myself and I occasionally consult it before certain hikes.

On each trip the gear carried varies a bit depending on the particular hike and the weather.

(For instance I have brought a spare (very light) snowshoe on a couple of trips but sure don't do that every time. When a partner blew the bottom right out of his elderly MSR I think he was glad when I rented him the extra shoe. )

 

[Jason Berard]

.... Now I have a certain "method" for winter hiking. But the funny thing is, on that first winter hike of the season where I take the heavier pack and the snowshoes etc, I'm always confused and searching for crap in my pack, forgetting things etc. You gotta change yer mindset.

-Dr. Wu

That is EXACTLY the way I feel on the first winter hike of the season!

The one thing I would add that people have implied, but not explicitly said, is that I wouldn't bring a hydration bladder....although I don't have any experience with the insulated ones..... I bring my water in wide mouth nalgenes in insulated containers, and a thermos with something warm in it ( usually hot cocoa/ coffee mix, or tomato soup).
My first winter hike was Tecumseh, which was a good "test drive hike", but the hike that hooked me forever was a New Year's Day hike up Moosilauke with high winds and poor visibility! there's nothing like it!!
I am always amazed that with the right gear, its almost easier to stay comfortable in the winter, than in the summer, at least for me. I find its easier to stay warm in the winter, than it is to keeep cool in the summer.

Have Fun!!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

The one thing I would add that people have implied, but not explicitly said, is that I wouldn't bring a hydration bladder....

Jason -

Usually there's at least one thread each year where it's suggested that if you take some rather unusual measures, it's possible to use a hydration bladder year-round. That's usually followed by a series of posts from more experienced winter hikers who warn against it and urge hot beverages in wide-mouthed Nalgene bottles carried upside-down in insulated containers.

Let's see how long it takes this year ...

 

[Neil]

I winter hiked with a winter 46er and, using a bladder, he managed to keep his water liquid.

He somehow had his insulated hose running inside his clothing. I only tried it once and got an ice plug right where the tube exited the bladder. Maybe trying it for the first time at -10 wasn't very bright on my part.

I didn't experiment with various set-ups and resorted to the waterbottle jacket on the hip pad belt technique.

 

[Chip]

The one thing I would add that people have implied, but not explicitly said, is that I wouldn't bring a hydration bladder....although I don't have any experience with the insulated ones..... I bring my water in wide mouth nalgenes in insulated containers, and a thermos with something warm in it ( usually hot cocoa/ coffee mix, or tomato soup).
Have Fun!!

I agree. I had a bladder tube freeze up on me on Lafayette in Feb, what a freakin pain. First and last time in winter with a bladder. And this was in an insulated Osprey Switch pack. I was glad I was carrying a couple nalgenes to transfer the water to. I know there's "blow back" techniques for the tubes, but I can't be bothered. Wide mouth is also good as a small mouth can freeze you out easier.

This is a one day winter gearlist from EMS Climb. This list does not include hardwear; crampons, snowshoes, etc. which you may need.

 

[Chip]

Jason -

Let's see how long it takes this year ...

only long enough to type it !

 

[cbcbd]

Try doing a Google search for "winter checklists" or something like that. Also, read lots of winter trip reports.

From the EMS climbing school site:

Single day mountaineering

And to that I'd only add insulated boots and traction devices (depends on conditions).

edit: (dang it, Chip beat me to it!!)

 

[nartreb]

See Metsky's reply. I'd add:

Traction & flotation (depends on date, trail, weather, but "full" would imply Yaktrax, crampons, and snowshoes.)

Gaiters to keep the snow out of your boots.

Pair of metal-tipped hiking poles, with snow baskets [possibly implied in your "fall gear", but not for me]

 

[DougPaul]

Usually there's at least one thread each year where it's suggested that if you take some rather unusual measures, it's possible to use a hydration bladder year-round. That's usually followed by a series of posts from more experienced winter hikers who warn against it and urge hot beverages in wide-mouthed Nalgene bottles carried upside-down in insulated containers.

Let's see how long it takes this year ...

It has already happened over on the AMC BBS--some beginner wanted a winter-school amount of advice on winter equipment and someone else had to recommend the use of a bladder.

Never fails...

"Common sense isn't all that common."

Doug

 

[Chip]

From the EMS climbing school site:

Single day mountaineering

And to that I'd only add insulated boots and traction devices (depends on conditions).

edit: (dang it, Chip beat me to it!!)

Great Minds, my friend.

Since this is a bulletin board (with new members and members who are doing different things in a technologically dynamic sport) I see no harm in re-hashing previously discussed topics.

If Darren wanted a static FAQs board, I think he'd have added it by now.

 

[dr_wu002]

It has already happened over on the AMC BBS--some beginner wanted a winter-school amount of advice on winter equipment and someone else had to recommend the use of a bladder.

Never fails...

"Common sense isn't all that common."

Doug

A 'friend' of mine has repeatedly tried to convince me to fill my bladder with a low melting point fluid such as acetone or isopropyl alcohol or even plain gasoline. These would likely remain in liquid state at all times, however, I have long suspected that this would only substitute one problem for a potentially more serious (lethal) one.

I similarly rejected his oft recommended "stainless steel boots in winter" theory. Common sense and a little knowledge of thermal conductivity and toxicity can go a long way.

However, my somewhat limited knowledge of biology has caused me to struggle on legitimacy of the "cobra in the sleeping bag for added warmth" technique that he claims is nearly foolproof. The jury is still out on that one -- I mean, I know their bite is toxic but they don't hunt humans, right?

Avoid the bladder (except remember to tend to your internal one), avoid steel toed boots, and I'm leaning towards recommending you avoid poisonous snakes as well. Good luck and have fun. Looks like we'll have some white stuff to walk around in this weekend!!

-Dr. Wu

 

[--M.]

Silly Dr. Wu: the snake's fangs would puncture the bladder! EVERYONE knows that! Now see if you get invited to the next high-peaks-mongoose-sleeping water-bladder test.