Pulks comparison

[Motabobo]

What is everyone's take at the differences (besides pricing and the fact some brands may be hard to get) between the major pulk manufacturers (gear hauling) ? I've narrowed the selection to 4 companies :

1. Paris Expedition Sled
2. Granite Gear Sled
3. Acapulka Pulkas
4. Fjellpulken Pulks

For example, all expensive models seem to be a little bit heavier than the Paris Expedition Sled, but are they that much tougher, or sliding easier, etc. to justify the price difference ? What are the technical reasons in favor of a much more expensive model ?!

Thanks

 

[DougPaul]

There have been a number of previous threads on the topic with a good bit of info.

Your reference 1 is a popular approach--it includes instructions on how to make your own (and the website owner occasionally drops in on views).

Doug

 

[Jay H]

To be brief, #1 is popular because it's not specifically a "pulk" per se, it was designed for ice fishermen and is fairly cheap. At least when looking at your link to Granite Gear, #1 is super appealing to a cheapskate like me because it's cheap. A homemade harness and the pulk would hardly go over $150 although there are ways to go crazy and buy kits or buy specific purposed poles and harnesses, it's also quite easy to DIY and save a bundle.

The weight issue is kind of moot, IMO, the best places for use of sleds is somewhat flat to rolling hills such that the weight of the sled is not that big a deal because once you have the sled moving, you've overcome most of the weight issue. The only time I really feel the weight of the sled is going uphill and generally the places that I would use one are the flat approaches to say places in the ADKs or Baxter. I wouldn't plan on using it to lug gear up Katahdin in winter, anyway. Durability is more important than weight and one could argue that the heavier sled may be more durable but so far, my sled has held up well.

What is somewhat lacking but easily fixed is the low sides of the Paris E.S. (P.E.S), you'll get a lot of snow in the sled itself so either throw a tarp over it or waterproof things you need to keep dry. Minor inconvenience and I would waterproof things carried in a sled anyway.. Also, more purposefully built pulks may sidehill better but then again, that can also be fixed on the PES...

Jay

 

[Jason Berard]

I built #1 last winter. It was easy once I found the parts. I have only used it to haul my kids around so far, but it works well. I can't say anything about the others. It turns great! I have a couple extra pieces if you want to go the DIY route.....

 

[nazdarovye]

Skipulk.com

Ed Bouffard is the guy who posted the best plans for the Paris sled-style pulks, and now sells additional professional pulks (from a manufacturer whose design and molds he bought). I tested one for backpackinglight and really like it:

http://www.skipulk.com/products and parts.html

He's also got parts for Paris sleds and a new plastic sled design to replace the Paris - good stuff. His harness system is especially good; I have two Paris sled models as well - they're fine (and the price is right) but the professional models glide better and come with good covers/bags for gear.

I've examined the Granite Gear pulk in person at the OR show, and it's a great product, but quite big and heavy - probably best for expeditions or serious gear hauling.

I also have a Mountainsmith sled (later sold by Kifaru) - another good design, with aluminum traces that split in the middle and store in the pulk, making it the most compact of all the designs.

I'd say you can't go wrong with any of these; I find the fiberglass and coated sleds (all but the Paris, I believe), slide more efficiently than the Paris sleds.

What else would you like to know? What will you be using the sled for, and will you be skiing, snowshoeing, cramponing or all of the above?

 

[Little Rickie]

I vote for the cheaper homemade ones -

-unless you're really going on an extreem adventure.

Do some of you use the more expensive pulks?


I've made one from a longer heaver sled the kids use. I don't think it cost anything close to $50. It's worked fine but my pipes flex too much going down hill and I lose some control of the pulk. I'm going to get stiffer pipes.

I may add a fin to the bottom? If the snow is deep and soft it tracks well but on packed snow it drifts.

My waist harness is rope. Now that I have an old backpack I may use the waist belt for that.

If I can find the Boy Scout plans I copied from I'll post the link. If you like to tinker then make your own.

I got The link for #1 from Neil a few years, it has been a great resource and has given me several ideas.

 

[Motabobo]

I plan to use it with skis, snowshoes, crampons, etc. and I don't own any of them, for now.

Well here is my take.

1. Pulk Materials
   • Molded Polyethylene (Skipulk, Granite Gear and several others). Cheap option, Ok for most situations around here but wouldn't live through an artic expedition beeing dragged between blocks and slabs of snow and ice and I'm not even talking about using it as a canoe yet, etc.
   • fiberglass reinforced polyethylene: it is my understanding the fiberglass addition strengthens (probably abrasive and torsional strength) the pulk itself. I really didn't think this simple addition would be enough to bring the goods to south pole for example but it's still what Fjellpulken & Acapulka uses...So pricey for a simple fiberglass addition ? Anything I miss here ? I don't think there is 100% fiberglass sleds out there ?
   • Kevlar...cream of the crop of Acapulka's line and other manufacturers such as snowsled. I think it only has to do with saving weight. Too pricey for mortals like me.
2. Pulk Covers
   500-1000 denier waterproof Cordura Nylon seem to be the standard for pulk covers so not much options here...
3. Poles
   I haven't got through the poles system details yet (except alu vs fiberglass, crossed vs straight designs)...as I thought the price difference would mainly lie in the pulk material itself but I might be wrong.

Feel free to add anything !

What did the Denali climbers here used ? Anybody care to elaborate on poles fastening systems used on professional pulks ?

Thanks

 

[peakbagger]

Kevinmac mentioned while hiking yesterday that he had picked up a "mad river rocket" at an EMS (or REI) bargain basement. Both he and I have heard them being used for the base of a pulk.

I have the old reliable paris molded shell. The one modification I have is that the two rigid poles slide into either side of a sleeve mounted on the front of the sled. A mini bungie cord holds the two poles into the sleeve and allows them to tilt at different angles but tend to pull them level. In case of a major crash and burn, very related to my borderline non existent downhill skiing skills, the poles will tend to pop out the sleeve rather than breaking.

 

[cbcbd]

I think the price difference you see is from materials, construction, and extras.

The Paris is a simple polyethylene thermomold with no frills. Ok, so Hamtero didn't take his, but I do have a friend who built Ed's Paris with fiberglass poles setup, shipped it for his Denali trip, and left it there. He has some good pictures on the sidehills where his sled (with fins) stayed on track while everyone in front had sleds sliding downhill.

The composite ones are handmade and working with fiberglass is a lot more tedious - I'm just saying from personal experience patching up my kayak. Also, from experience in the kayak fiberglass is pretty abrasion resistant and won't gouge deeply, but gel coatings can crack and so can the fiberglass. My guess as to why the pulks are not 100% fiberglass is that the poly probably helps the pulk keep it's shape and ads cheaper reinforcement - fiberglass is strong, but can have a lot of flex, which can be reinforced by thickening the material - you could add more fiberglass, but it seems like they chose to mix the two to get that extra durability and redundancy from having two different materials... and it ends up being cheaper.

Again, from the book of kayaking and materials- poly scratches easier, but it pretty durable on impact since it bounces off instead of wanting to crack. Fiberglass doesn't gouge as easily (so it will cause less drag over snow over time) and is easier to repair, but can crack. Kevlar is the light standard but very expensive and harder to repair.

And of course there are the obvious extras like the built in straps and covers in the more expensive ones.

Also a note on the Mad River Rocket from our Baxter trip last year - most of us had the Paris and two had the MRR. It was fine on the way out when the surface was icy, but on the way in to Roaring Brook and then to Chimney Pond, with the 1'+ of snow we got, the tubby shape of the Rocket caused a lot of drag in the deep snow where the Paris sleds seemed to ride on top of it much better.

What I learned about poles I posted here:
http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9711&highlight=poles&page=3

 

[nazdarovye]

Another factor is the value of your time. If you're retired, or a student, or otherwise can put in several hours of work for time you'd otherwise waste, then the Paris sled is a fine option (I've made two).

If you can justify the expenditure or otherwise make better use of your time, the commercial pulks offer a lot of value.

 

[HAMTERO]

I actually did not bring my Ed Bouffard Paris/fibreglass pole sled to Denali, mostly because I had so much stuff to get on the plane. Mostly everyone there uses the free air service sleds with a rope setup like in Freedom of the Hills. They are sort of a blessing/curse thing. Tough to control on the downhill and the last person on the rope runs the risk of the sled falling on him or her in a crevasse fall. That is going to hurt.

The Bouffard pole and harness setup is great though. It is not huge money just to buy that. I love mine.

 

[Ed B]

More info on Plastic sleds

Hi All-
I don't get on here often but thought I might offer some helpful info here.

When you are talking about best you have to realize there is no one best product out there. Each material has its own best in the different categories:

Strength
Sliperiness
Durability
Moldability (ability to create a shape)

For example- For strength vs. weight there is no comparison to kevlar or carbon fiber sleds but these sleds and the less expensive fiberglass alternatives do not slide as well and can ice up in certain conditions. Like a kevlar canoe vs a plastic one they also require greater care and will show signs from abuse like dragging over rocks very quickly. When if comes to expeditions size loads - no other materials have comparable strength.

In comparison plastic sleds are not all alike.

The most durable and slippery by far are the UHMW Polyethylene sleds.. Dog sled runner material...(Think Northern Sled works) but since they can not be molded easily they are hard to shape into the best shape for sleds.

The next best for sliperiness are the High Density Polyethylene sleds. There are two sleds that come to mind here. The Paris Expedition and the Emsco Beast. The Beast looks to be created in an injection mold process and while it is very slippery- it is a bit fragile. The Paris sled is thermoformed and is very durable but the molding process leaves the sled thinnest on the bottom where the greatest wear will occur. The Thermoform process also requires large rims for strength and these are a bit of a pain for pulk pullers.

The Wilderness Engineering sled is similar in sliperiness but it's special cross link polyethylene construction creates an extremely good sled that holds it form very well and it seems to be extremely durable. This sled is similar in size to the Jet Jr.

The Jet Junior is also a good pulk sled. It appears to be formed by a rotomold process that allows it to have thin rims for less problems in brush and it has uniform thickness with no thin spots on the bottom. I believe it is made from a low density polyethylene which makes it even more durable in cold weather than the high density sleds like the Paris. Low density poly is not quite as slippery as the other plastics but the rotomold process allows a molder to incorporate special features specifically designed for pulks. Another rotomolded sled for pulks in my new Snow Clipper line which is made from extremely durable low density polyethylene and has about 5 special pulk features built into the shape of the mold.

I hope this helps put the different sled materials in perspective. If a person wants to get a look at many different pulks from one site they may want to check out the links page on my site which has all the pulks I know of listed in one spot. - Ed B

 

[Motabobo]

The most durable and slippery by far are the UHMW Polyethylene sleds.. Dog sled runner material...(Think Northern Sled works) but since they can not be molded easily they are hard to shape into the best shape for sleds.

Can you elaborate on that ? Obviously, this design has even less torsional stiffness than High Density Polyethylene designs (it can be rolled). However, like you say, it is clearly tougher (abrasive and impact) so I guess I shouldn't worry much about the risk of the material cracking at low T while beeing abused ? I can also see how the corners are rounded up. Is that a potential risk of poles/pulk attachment failure ?! Might get the poles and harness elsewhere. Thanks

 

[Jay H]

I used 2 U-bolts with metal plates on both sides to mount the EMT conduit to my Paris sled. Then i ran a length of an angle bracket to connect the two U bolts and the arms and I have another piece of sheetmetal attached further closer to the harness so I can pull it when I need to and for stiffness. I have checked a bunch of times after my initial tests to see if there was any wear in the HDPE where i made the holes for the U bolt. Haven't noticed anything yet.

I think I was able to use 1 hole that was drilled with a metal grommet in it and then all I needed to do was drill the second hole for the u-bolt. And it's in such a way that I can simple bend the EMT arms back for transport, the sled fits nicely in the back of my Subaru without any kind of disassembly.

Jay

 

[Ed B]

UHMW Poly vs HDPE

Hi Motabobo-

UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight) poly is different from HDPE (High Density Poly).

The UHMW poly can not easily be molded- That is why Northeren Sled works pulk is kind of a stich together process made from sheet stock. You cannot beat it for slipperiness and durability.

HDPE can be molded (in fact three different ways... Injection/roto and thermo (sheet)) and several sleds are made from it in appropriate thicknesses Paris/ Beast etc. If you use a backing plate to reinforce (spread out the stress) the point of attachment you will probably never have a problem. I have a few hundred Paris Expedition sleds out there with my backing plate design and never have heard of a problem with the attachment point. Keep in mind that on the Paris, the attachment point is where the plastic is at its thickest.

Good luck on your project- Ed B (Pulky Ed)

 

[Nif]

Kevinmac mentioned while hiking yesterday that he had picked up a "mad river rocket" at an EMS (or REI) bargain basement. Both he and I have heard them being used for the base of a pulk.

And if you go to Mad River Rocket's website they have the instructions for how to make a pulk from their sled. As one of the two that CBCBD mentions on the Baxter Trip, if I could have burned that sled at the end I would have....DON'T USE A MAD RIVER ROCKET!!!!!!

They work great on a hard snow surface, but when it's soft at all they "burrow". I expect my experience on the 15 miles in was sorta like how the ox in an ox pull feels.... My only consolation was that is was a borrowed rig, I was mostly glad to return.

Just my 2¢ I'm in the market for a Paris Expedition sled this year. The pole system the Rocket had worked great however, it was designed by an Electrician who used some electrical conduit tubing. I'll be replicating that on my sled.

 

[Little Rickie]

Is the electrical (plastic?) conduit too flexable? or brittel in low temps?

I'm trying to decide what I want to use on my second sled.

 

[Motabobo]

I'm actually wondering how to attach the poles to the Northern Sled Works From their pictures it seems the attachment point is way below. Any suggestions ?

 

[Peakbagr]

I pulled my homemade sled on some fun Adirondack back country peakbagging trips. Its built around an orange Kmart plastic sled. Bolted plywood reinforement pieces along the front top and bottom lips of the sled and then eyebolts thru the wood and plastic on top.
I've pulled it with an external pack waist band and bamboo poles picked up for free at carpet stores. Variations include using 1" PVC piping with nylon rope inside the PVC. The nylon does the heavy pulling and the poles keep the sled stabilzed and useful if you're sidehilling.
Also rope attachements on the rear for the next in line to keep a heavily laden sled from 'tailgateing' you or sideslipping on a downhill or heavy crust.

My system for hauling: Load pretty much everything into a big monster winter pack and lash it into the sled, straps up. Then carry a light daypack with stuff you need on the way in. Something happens, or the sled doesn't work in certain terrain, stream crossing or bridge - stap or bungee the daypack to the top of the expedition pack, unattach the poles, and wear the packed sled until you get to friendlier terrain.

I'm certain it would be quickly trashed on an arctic expedition, but mine has carried huge loads into the winter backcountry for long distances with never a problem.
And you can put it together in a couple of hours and cheap. Probably not what you're looking for, but a nice alternative for those who don't want to spend the $$ or when your life is not dependent on its integrity.

 

[hikingfish]

Is the electrical (plastic?) conduit too flexable? or brittel in low temps?

I'm trying to decide what I want to use on my second sled.

For my Paris sled, I used chimney cleaning poles (6$ each). Strong and highly flexible...

And a word of advice...make sure your harness has loops that go over your shoulders, so that pulling the sled is an entire body exercise. DON'T learn this lesson the hard way like I did.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/554374173RAITYe

Fish

PS: The pic has a cover my mom had made for me...however I now usually just use a big hockey bag...works great.