Daylight Saving Time

[rhihn]

As we plan our hiking this month, remember that the Energy Policy Act of 2005 changes the start and end times for DST this year. It begins at 2:00 AM on March 11, and ends at 2:00 AM on November 4th. See here for details. This change will affect anything that may automatically account for DST, from computers to auto-adjusting clocks. I'm told that computer patches have been developed and released by Microsoft and Apple to address the issue.

In any case, mark your calendars.

Dick

 

[Adk_dib]

they are going to have to change it from "spring" forward to "march" forward. Hey, do I get the royalties if this expression sticks.

 

[Ed Poyer]

March forth

they are going to have to change it from "spring" forward to "march" forward. Hey, do I get the royalties if this expression sticks.

If only congress had the foresight to set it on March 4th, rather than the 11th. Then we could remember it as "March Forth".
Ed

 

[Ridgewalker]

they are going to have to change it from "spring" forward to "march" forward. Hey, do I get the royalties if this expression sticks.

You had me in chuckles adk_dib, hey Ed good point on the date. It seems that even dates are easier to remember than odd numbers. I presume the March 11 date must be for making up the right amount of days, could be wrong.

Ridgewalker

 

[kmorgan]

they are going to have to change it from "spring" forward to "march" forward. Hey, do I get the royalties if this expression sticks.

Actually the official term is now "Surge forward"

 

[expat]

List records?

In the past, DST started after the end of the official Winter hiking season. So, will any new winter list records need to be annotated with the remark that they were done with "increased afternoon sunlight"?

 

[J.P.]

In the past, DST started after the end of the official Winter hiking season. So, will any new winter list records need to be annotated with the remark that they were done with "increased afternoon sunlight"?

On the other hand you could say that it will be more difficult now since "winter" is now an hour shorter.

 

[sapblatt]

You may need a headlamp at 7am for a couple of weeks...a fair trade for more light in the afternoon!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

On the other hand you could say that it will be more difficult now since "winter" is now an hour shorter.

Not really. The sun doesn't change it's course. Just our time. Winter is just as long as it would have been had we not changed the clocks.

 

[sardog1]

Not really. The sun doesn't change it's course. Just our time. Winter is just as long as it would have been had we not changed the clocks.

Yes, really. It's the AMC winter season that J.P. referred to, not the astronomical winter. The 2006-07 season will be one hour shorter than all previous AMC winter seasons, because the clock is now being advanced one hour during the AMC season, i.e., between the winter solstice and the spring equinox.

This will be the case going forward as well, because the DST time change is now being made annually each AMC winter season. Even tougher to beat Seaver's record now!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

But I thought the AMC followed the astronomical winter season.. IE, Equinox to equinox, unlike the 46ers, who go fixed date to fixed date.

 

[sardog1]

My error -- sorry! As Emily L. would say, "Never mind."

EDIT: Well, it's never a good idea to open mouth before engaging brain . . . and checking the primary source. From the AMC FTFC:

Q. What determines a winter ascent?

A. It is not simply a matter of dates on your household calendar (e.g. Dec 21st to March 20th). The criteria established by Miriam Underhill, the inventor of the Winter Four-Thousand-Footer Game is more exact: trips must begin after the hour and minute of the beginning of winter (winter solstice), and end before the hour and minute of the end of winter (spring equinox). In the US edition of her book, Give me the Hills Miriam Underhill is even more specific, as she writes:

This game was an offshoot, of course, of that very popular game of the Appalachian Mountain Club, Climbing the Four-thousanders, which was set in motion, and such vigorous and enthusiastic motion, in 1958. Our game —"ours" because we were the first to play it— followed right along. As the initiators we set the rules, which concerned the definition of "winter". "Snow on the ground" and other namby-pamby criteria definitely did not count. "Winter" was to be measured exclusively by the calendar. In 1960, for instance, winter began at 3:27 PM on Wednesday, December 21, too late to get up to Crag Camp by daylight.
Notice the use of the word "game". Games have rules, which may well be arbitrary, but if you play a game you should follow the rules. If you do not like the rules, you are free to define your own game, but must clearly differentiate it from the "official" game. Also note the last sentence of the quotation above. The entire trip has to start (and end) during winter. She did not allow the trip up to Crag Camp to start one day before winter, with the final ascent taking place on the first day of winter.
The official times of the Equinoxes and Solstices are available on the US Naval Observatory web site. Note that the times are given in Universal Time (UT). To convert to EST subtract five hours. The following table (using EST/EDT) is extracted from that site:

Note: starting in 2007 Daylight Savings Time will begin during the winter! This means that all equinox times will have to be converted to EDT (UT - 4 hours) not EST.


The adjustment has been made in this table.
Winter of Start End
2004-2005 Dec. 21, 7:42 AM Mar. 20, 7:33 AM
2005-2006 Dec. 21, 1:35 PM Mar. 20, 1:26 PM
2006-2007 Dec. 21, 7:22 PM Mar. 20, 8:07 PM
2007-2008 Dec. 22, 1:08 AM Mar. 20, 1:48 AM
2008-2009 Dec. 21, 7:04 AM Mar. 20, 7:44 AM
2009-2010 Dec. 21, 12:47 PM Mar. 20, 1:32 PM
Note that while the first day of winter 2005 is December 21st the time of the solstice leaves only about 3 hours of daylight in which to complete a trip, so the first full hikable winter day in 2005-2006 will be Dec 22nd. As opposed to 2004, in which December 21st was almost a full hiking day.

Similarly, in most years, March 19th is the last full hikable day of winter, as winter ends too early on the 20th to allow a full day of hiking (2007 being an exception, especially due to the change in Daylight Savings Time).

If you hike on one of the marginal days, it is helpful if you note the start or finish time (as needed) of your trip on your application."

 

[Snowflea]

In the past, DST started after the end of the official Winter hiking season. So, will any new winter list records need to be annotated with the remark that they were done with "increased afternoon sunlight"?

The same comparison could be made for those setting/breaking records in March vs. Dec/Jan... I would answer "no" since it's common knowledge that there's more daylight later in the winter.

I'd be interested in the comments of others.

 

[Jay H]

A somewhat convoluted but working patch for Micro$oft Windows users to update their PC and Outlook for those that run it:

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_dst

Jay

 

[J.P.]

Yes, really. It's the AMC winter season that J.P. referred to, not the astronomical winter. The 2006-07 season will be one hour shorter than all previous AMC winter seasons, because the clock is now being advanced one hour during the AMC season, i.e., between the winter solstice and the spring equinox.

Actually, since I do most of my hiking in New York, I had in mind the "winter" season as defined by the ADK 46rs and the Catskill 3500 club which is December 21 to March 21. As you have pointed out in your later post, this is another way that the various organizations differ in how they define the requirements.