Mt Washington summit crowds

I've been holding this in for too long. I have to make a confession, and I know this will prevent me from ever attaining that "hardcore hiker" status I so intensely long for. Here it is...I'm just gonna say it...I love the summit of Mt. Washington in the summer. Whew! I feel so much better.

I've hiked up several times, and never once have I gotten to the top and regretted seeing all the people there. Unless someone just flew in this morning from Neptune and didn't have time to do even the most basic research on the mountain about to be climbed, I don't understand how that person can get to the top and be surprised and upset that there are buildings and (even more unsettling) non-hikers.

I like seeing "the fat old lady in high heels", which is a description I've read in several places. I like to see her staring wide-eyed across the Great Gulf at the northern presidentials. I like to see the look on her face when she asks the hiker at the next table that age-old question, "Did you really walk up here?"

I like seeing the little dudes bouncing down the rocks ahead of their worried mothers, moving toward the west so they can look at the Lakes of the Clouds Hut, which looks like a toy house from that distance. I like seeing the looks on their faces when they see the choo-choo train coming up the tracks making that whistling noise.

I like seeing people on the observation deck pointing all around, trying to identify the surrounding peaks, and laughing about how cold and windy it is compared to the valley.

I like to see people enjoying mountains, forests, waterfalls, etc. I don't care if they drove to the top. For many of them, and for various reasons, that's the only way they'll ever get the chance to see it. I say good for them for enjoying the beautiful scenery from the roof of the northeast. If I want solitude, I can find it in dozens and dozens of other places in the Whites.

p.s. I had the following conversation once with a hiker who was bemoaning the state of the Mt. Washington summit.
"I hate all the commercialization up there."
"When you hiked up there, did you use the restroom?"
"Yes."
"Did you fill your water bottles?"
"Yes."
"Did you buy a snack?"
"Yes."

well stated!! dude - I am with you - I have been up it over 20 times in all seasons and never tire of it and I will probably do it 5 more times next 12 months.

The whole area is fun, scenic and worth it in all seasons.

I've never been up there in summer to see the throngs of people, but I can imagine, and would thus be preapred to not have a solitary mountain-top experience.

However, the road, the buildings, the cog, all reflect what at one time (and to some degree still is) was very much the way Americans recreated. People didn't want to tramp around in the woods and get dirty (or at least not most). They preferred to sit on a nice porch and view the lovely scenery. The automobile and railroads allowed people to do that much more easily. The access that this allowed got people out, it got people interested in visiting and protecting natural areas. It's much the same with the Adirondacks. I think it's much newer, but doesn't Whiteface have road to the top too?

Anyway, I think (althiough I'm not sure of the dates) the road, (Old Bridle path anyone?), cog and buildings on Mt. Washington predate the big hiking/backpacking push and should be accepted as part of the history of the area.

my 2

To be honest with you, I've found solitude on Washington Summit many times.... it's all about going up at the right time, if that's what you want. If I'm in the mood for crowds then the summit is fine. If I'm not in the mood for crowds, I don't go to Washington -- there's a lot of places in the Presis where you could spend an entire day and not see anyone!

If they proposed to put similar stuff on Lafayette I'd be against it but Washington is Washington, let it be.

-Dr. Wu

PS. As much as I complain about the stinky cog, I do like seeing the little train. I used to be big into trains as a kid and it's still a thrill. The one problem I really have is not so much the air pollution -- I wish the cog people would clean up the area around the tracks. The mess of coal extends about 1/4 mile in some places...

Second PS: I don't mind the crowds but I don't like seeing people litter.

It's one of the best places for people watching!! And, there is nothing better than a whoopie pie in the middle of a long hike. Plus, for me I say why complain, it's not like I can change it

On a Friday last summer I hiked accross Washington, saw elderly seniors that could never otherwise have such a mountain top experience, a morbidly overweigth person doing a perfect reststep on each step just to get up the stairs from the parkinglot, another lady clinging to the railing for fear of heights, and most touching a young boy in a powered wheelchair with a huge smile, would I want to take that experience away from any of them, No! lots of other places they could never get to for the rest of us to have to our selves.

The only part that bugged me was meeting up with the "hikers" streaming up Saturday that were not prepaired for the climb, no map, half a bottle of water, sandles, t-shirt and too late in the day for thier pace....

personally, I don't have that great of an experience up there. I feel they should cap the population, maybe less cars allowed at a time, getting rid of the Cog (way too much pollution, I hate that thing), that way people can still get up there, but it won't be the clogged mess. Cannon nd Killington have this feel, as the crowd is smaller and more controlled.

I did find the museum cool the first time I went up, and have bought the tshirt, and food so its not all bad, but then again all of those things can also be accomplished at the huts, which I really like, course its one of those things I dont look forward to doing over and over again, but the first time its pretty cool (of course I was 13)

honestly, I am not sure I will ever summit Washington again. I still love the area, but for me I would just as soon go to the other peaks arround it, Monroe is actually one of my favorites, similiar view, accessible from the same trails, etc.

I don't mind the Washington summit experience, either, although it did take me a little while to get used to it. But gradually I realized there's lots of ways to enjoy the summit of a mountain, and the people who rode or drove up are still better off for the experience than never seeing New Hampshire from the top. And who am I to say that the only acceptable way to get there is on foot? That's arrogant, and I cringe as I watch some hikers snub those who drove up, realizing at one time I probably did the same thing.

As for the Cog, though - sorry, a bad idea is always a bad idea. I wish it didn't exist - it's a great example of "despite all we've learned in the past 100 years in terms of good environmental practices, we'll ignore this monstrosity because it's been here for awhile". Sorta like keeping Love Canal because it been around for awhile.

Just so that I'm not misunderstood - my attitude towards the Cog will change as more of the engines are retrofitted to oil-fired, and if their ski trains are successful this is likely to happen. Mass transit is more efficient than private automobiles.

The summit crowds on Mt Washington are what they are and I am more accustomed to experiencing what I see there than I am in seeing what I see on Mt Lafayette in the summer. Actually the Mt Lafayette summer summit experience can be, in a way, worse than Washington's.

While I agree with what you say about the varied reactions of the non-hikers, I was curious about one of your comments and what you meant by it:

dvbl said:

... I know this will prevent me from ever attaining that "hardcore hiker" status I so intensely long for.

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JohnL

As one who has bit#*ed about Mt. Washington crowds in the summer I want to say that it is nice for everyone to get to the mountains...certainly the elderly, handicapped, very young, etc are not about to hike - they should be able to see the beauty. I just do not like the peaks that are developed at all...my personal take on it that's all. BTW - I do not consider myself to be a hardcore hiker...

And yes - in a rare moment of great hypocrisy I will admit that I did use the restroom (I figured it would be very rude to "go" in front of all of the families, and I would probably have to "register" ), I did fill my water bottles, but I did not buy any food - would have, but wanted to lighten my pack.

I am with Wu on the train thing...loved them as a kid, still do. It is nice to see my oldest boy loves trains too...I would just rather not see them there.

My favorite pastime is barging through the doors of the summit building- scratches all over my face and legs, mud plastered all over, wild-eyed stare - as the tourist women giggle with giddiness and their men cower away in respect of my uber-hiker demeanor and dominance... they wish they had the ultra stamina and mental fortitude required to ascend the Northeast's highest massif by foot.

eh, it's just fun to see the different kind of people that get up there, you get the whole gammut. I'd have no problem driving up either, then I could finally get that bumper sticker I've always wanted.

Plus, they have chilly - ain't nothin' wrong with that!

cbcbd said:

I'd have no problem driving up either, then I could finally get that bumper sticker I've always wanted.

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I will shamefully admit I want one of those too Don't know if I'd go so far as to put it on my car, I just want it.

I saw one the other day that said my ass climbed Mt. Washington
Maybe they just altered a car one.

cbcbd said:

My favorite pastime is barging through the doors of the summit building- scratches all over my face and legs, mud plastered all over, wild-eyed stare - as the tourist women giggle with giddiness and their men cower away in respect of my uber-hiker demeanor and dominance... they wish they had the ultra stamina and mental fortitude required to ascend the Northeast's highest massif by foot.

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I know the feelin' dude!

Little Sister said:

And, there is nothing better than a whoopie pie in the middle of a long hike.

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And PIZZA--Don't forget the PIZZA!

sleeping bear said:

It's much the same with the Adirondacks. I think it's much newer, but doesn't Whiteface have road to the top too?

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Yes, Whiteface has the Whiteface Mountain Veterans Memorial Highway which is a toll road to the summit. According to Wikipedia: "Construction on the toll road began in 1929 ...[o]fficially opened July 20, 1935..."
I would imagine that they do limit the umber of cars going up because there are a limited number of spaces up there.

I drove up it with my wife and dog last year because she doesn't like to hike mountains and we were in Lake Placid for the weekend. I was totally jealous of the sweaty, muddy hikers with that glow about them who summited in the time that we were there. (I mentioned in another thread about the guy who yelled at me for standing in a precarious position for a photo op. I didn't yell back about my climbing experience and tell him to go park cars, but wanted to...)

My overall opinion is a little indifferent. It's there, I'm glad that people who normally wouldn't be able to hike up there can have the experience. I wouldn't want any roads built to the summit of any other peaks and if the Whiteface road was allowed to fall into ruin, the buildings crumble and all the manmade artifices be overtaken by nature, I wouldn't mind.

It's always a delicate balance between maintaining the historicity of a place and its well-being. I love the legend and lore of the Whites, from early trailblazers to summit hotels. Obviously, Mt. Washington is a major factor in that, and for that reason I don't mind the observatory and auto road and cog railway and museum on top of a magnificent summit. From a naturalist standpoint, it's disappointing; but historically and scientifically, it's crucial.

Like others have said, there is plenty of wilderness and solitude to be found elsewhere, if that is the hiker's intent. Nobody goes to Fenway to see "just another baseball game," and nobody should climb Washington as if it is just another mountain - it is a journey through the history of a region as much as anything (at least in the busy summer times).

On the other hand, as Kevin Rooney said, a bad idea is always a bad idea. The environmental impact of the cog is atrocious. It was a bad idea then and it's a historically bad idea now. I'd rather not shrug my shoulders with a defeated attitude. I'd like to think that someday it will run on a cleaner fuel or some sort of renewable energy, despite the romanticism of an old coal train. Having the cog run on renewable energy would make more of a statement to the uninformed tourist about mountains/nature and our role as stewards than just seeing the pretty view at the top.


Oh - sleeping bear - and I did have a "This Body Climbed Mt. Washington" t-shirt at one point. That was about 10 years ago, though; I don't know if they still sell them.

As for the Cog, though - sorry, a bad idea is always a bad idea. I wish it didn't exist - it's a great example of "despite all we've learned in the past 100 years in terms of good environmental practices, we'll ignore this monstrosity because it's been here for awhile". Sorta like keeping Love Canal because it been around for awhile.

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Couldn't have said it better, Kevin!

Nothing quite like coming up the Great Gulf headwall and being greeted by clouds of obnoxious smoke and wind driven ashes. The lingering taste of sulphur in your chest the next day makes it all the more memorable.

I think it's a major bummer that Mts. Washington and Whiteface are the way they are. Especially Washington because it's such an amazing mountain. It's in a category all on its own. That dosn't stop me from skiing the WF road in winter though...And oh yeah, I ate the pizza. Kinda weird, hiked from Crag Camp, sat down, ate pizza and drank coke then hiked back. Surreal.

Still, if I was king of the world I'd rip everything down and shut down the roads. There's lots of other scenery you can drive to.

I have not been to Washingtons Summit yet, but I feel the same way about Cannon. I actually think the experience up there is.....well....quaint. Its neat to watch the tram go up and down, and to see the 350 lb short guy bent over and huffing half way up the staircase to the observation platform .

Brian

well, it is a State Park. and less crowded than a lot of other ones (Hampton Beach comes to mind).

If you want limited access go to Baxter.

I do agree with what others said about the train, but then again what would you moon if it wasn't there?

sapblatt said:

And yes - in a rare moment of great hypocrisy I will admit that I did use the restroom

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That's not hypocritical; it's practical!

It would be pretty funny if all the hikers pretended that the summit development wasn't there. "Ah," you'd hear them say, above the din, "It's so peaceful and quiet here!"